BREXIT Page 19

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Briosaid

  • Monday 23rd December 2019, 8:34pm
  • Scotland
  • 1,257 posts
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 23rd December 2019, 7:35 AM

To me there seems to be far more people determined for it not to be a success, which is a very sad thing. Think if we'd gone into WW2 with half the country wanting us to lose. :(

BJ has a very strong hand now in the trade deal negotiations, the EU needs to wake up to what has happened instead of hoping it was a dream which will go away. The LibDems did that and got mullered in the election. As yet there has been zero admission from the EU that their rigidity has lost them the 2nd largest contributor to their club, any other organisation would have to concede that that is a catastrophic failure of management and be a bit more flexible.

Don't dare compare the shite that is Brexit to WW2 you sick shit. I hope the ghosts of my father and my grandfather are heading your way to give you endless nightmares.

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Alfred J Kipper

  • Tuesday 24th December 2019, 12:56am
  • Aldershot, England
  • 6,037 posts
Quote: Briosaid @ 23rd December 2019, 8:34 PM

Don't dare compare the shite that is Brexit to WW2 .

Quote: chipolata @ 23rd December 2019, 9:43 AM

Firstly, don't keep mentioning the war, It has nothing whatsoever to with what's happening now. .

Really? Not even the feintest of parallels like Germany having caused two world wars in 20 years then the surviving leaders of the Third Reich setting up the genesis of the EU in the 50s with West Germany in control. Do you want to tell Greece to stop make comparisons to the war as well?

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Alfred J Kipper

  • Tuesday 24th December 2019, 1:21am
  • Aldershot, England
  • 6,037 posts
Quote: chipolata @ 23rd December 2019, 9:43 AM

And last time I checked we live in a democracy, people are entitled to hold whatever opinions they like.

Is this the same democracy millions of Remain voters and Parliament itself wanted to subvert? Democracy when you only get your way is not democracy, it's a sham. Thank God democracy won, but it was looking in mortal danger for a while with two and half political parties campaigning against it the GE and many MPs going against their own constituency's referendum results. I'm surprised remainers have the cheek to even utter that word right now.

Quote: chipolata @ 23rd December 2019, 9:43 AM

believing that we're taking a leap in the dark because nobody has planned properly or thought about the consequences of something.

Sorry to mention the war again but many at the time said exactly that about Churchill's declaration of War in September 1939.

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DaButt

  • Tuesday 24th December 2019, 2:53pm
  • The Lone Star State, United States
  • 13,685 posts

A tidbit from the last week:

"Contradictions between Polish law and EU law... will in all likelihood lead to an intervention by the EU institutions regarding an infringement of the EU treaties, and in the longer perspective (will lead to) the need to leave the European Union," Poland's Supreme Court said in a statement on December 17.

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billwill

  • Friday 31st January 2020, 2:22pm
  • North London, England
  • 5,803 posts

Well we finally reached Brexit day, though there are still fresh treaties to negotiate, but then there are always treaties to negotiate are there not?

The thing that worries me most is that the Brexit wrangling has been so intense and propagandized that there seem to be individuals who seem to be permanently brain-washed that they won't actually seek or read the real source information and just rely on highly biased media reporting. They seem to totally deny Democracy and I suspect they will make no attempts to change their ways of thinking or find new markets and will let their jobs & businesses go bankrupt, just so that they will be able to say "Yah boo Boris, I told you it wouldn't work".

More fool them, I say, but alas they may bring down many innocent citizens with them.

~~~~~~~~
DEMOCRACY in a nutshell: = Accept the decision of the majority of the people.

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chipolata

  • Friday 31st January 2020, 2:43pm
  • England
  • 29,942 posts
Quote: billwill @ 31st January 2020, 2:22 PM

Well we finally reached Brexit day, though there are still fresh treaties to negotiate, but then there are always treaties to negotiate are there not?

The thing that worries me most is that the Brexit wrangling has been so intense and propagandized that there seem to be individuals who seem to be permanently brain-washed that they won't actually seek or read the real source information and just rely on highly biased media reporting. They seem to totally deny Democracy and I suspect they will make no attempts to change their ways of thinking or find new markets and will let their jobs & businesses go bankrupt, just so that they will be able to say "Yah boo Boris, I told you it wouldn't work".

More fool them, I say, but alas they may bring down many innocent citizens with them.

~~~~~~~~
DEMOCRACY in a nutshell: = Accept the decision of the majority of the people.

Let me get this straight, billwill, you've got your precious Brexit yet you're already talking about it failing and trying to play a preemptive blame game! Show some faith in the thing you voted for, because if you don't nobody will.

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Lazzard

  • Friday 31st January 2020, 3:08pm [Edited]
  • Ludlow, England
  • 4,561 posts
Quote: billwill @ 31st January 2020, 2:22 PM

...individuals who seem to be permanently brain-washed that they won't actually seek or read the real source information and just rely on highly biased media reporting..

I'm pretty sure that's how we got to Brexit in the first place.

There's quite a lot off this "If Brexit turns out to be shit it's because of the Remainers" out there at the moment.
It's almost as if they're having second thoughts now that they've actually got to deliver it.

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DaButt

  • Friday 31st January 2020, 3:33pm
  • The Lone Star State, United States
  • 13,685 posts

Happy Brexit Day!

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beaky

  • Friday 31st January 2020, 7:18pm
  • Malaga and Brighton, United Kingdom
  • 2,687 posts

Unhappy, sadly. A national tragedy.

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Briosaid

  • Friday 31st January 2020, 7:23pm [Edited]
  • Scotland
  • 1,257 posts

I'd a lump in my throat watching them all singing 'Auld Lang Syne'. Bad form from the Nìgel Farage co-hort.. No dignity.

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Briosaid

  • Friday 31st January 2020, 8:57pm [Edited]
  • Scotland
  • 1,257 posts
Quote: DaButt @ 31st January 2020, 3:33 PM

Happy Brexit Day!

And happy corrupt-republican-politicians-of-the-century to you, too.

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BTF

  • Friday 31st January 2020, 9:30pm
  • United Kingdom
  • 493 posts
Quote: beaky @ 31st January 2020, 7:18 PM

Unhappy, sadly. A national tragedy.

Yes.

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Briosaid

  • Friday 31st January 2020, 10:33pm
  • Scotland
  • 1,257 posts

Quote Nigel Farage - 'believing in ENGLAND '. Says it all, bastarding xenophobe like his followers.

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A Horseradish

  • Friday 31st January 2020, 11:07pm [Edited]
  • United Kingdom
  • 6,954 posts

For the record, my personal history on these matters in full:

6 June 1975 - Labour had promised in its manifestos to hold a referendum on whether we should stay in. That is, both at the Feb 1974 and Oct 1974 general elections. In the first, they got 301 seats against the Tories' 297 - not enough to form an overall majority - and the Tories actually got more votes. In the second, they got 319 to 277, securing an overall majority of just 3. Call it a nation divided roughly 52%-48%. I had got into politics in September 1974 because of what seemed like saturation media election coverage but actually that was trivial compared with the obsessive cranking up of everything now. It just reflected two elections in one year. By the referendum in June 1975 I had at age 12 what I considered to be a weighty nine months political expertise and declared we should stay in. I also knew my place and felt I didn't need to vote until the age of 18 or ideally 35 for only then would I know if I wanted to wear pyjamas and vests.

While pleased with the two thirds majority for staying in, life was beginning to take its toll. Seeing trees at Port Talbot in the previous year singed by chemical fumes had left me feeling worried about the future of the planet, not that I took it to the United Nations with a lecture. The discussions leading to the referendum had also introduced me to the concept of us all being wiped out in a nuclear war before 1980. I had sleepless nights about it. Furthermore, it all merged with the concept of sex which had been described in a biology lesson during which I passed out. That was in January 1975. What a year. Too much life stuff. Too much death stuff. Feeling overwhelmed and dizzy every time I visited a library, I was put to the backdrop of Oh I'm Going To Barbados by Typically Tropical on tranquillisers just before June 1975 had ended. Consequently there were no celebrations of the outcome. Luckily, I did get over the nuke thing within weeks as it seemed unreal and it would be a full 20 years before I would need temporary medication for anxiety again, mainly on account of seeing throughout two full decades the prospect of any sort of relationship as an Armageddon to be avoided at all costs.

6 June 1975 - 6 June 2013 - During this 38 year period which equalled 13,870 days, I never once met anyone who said to me that they adored the arrangement we had with the EEC/EC/EU or that they loved it or that they even liked it. Not one. No hint of utter devastation if we ever left it. The subject just never arose. I met people who told me that they adored sex and adored football and adored beer and adored knitting and even adored pottery pigs but not Europe. The obvious conclusion to make is that throughout this entire period no one was emotionally in love with our membership even in balanced terms, let alone the overwrought, I consistently supported parties that were for ongoing membership but then almost everyone did for donkey's years because no mainstream party was ever against it. It was simply assumed.

As for opposition to our membership, there were always complaints about curly bananas and similar trivialities. One assumed this was a consequence of the naturally whinging working classes although, as things have transpired, it is clear that aspect of character is not at all class based. On the final day of this period, I watched a three hour film of the BBC's election coverage in 1966 - an election which Labour had also won. The latter part was journos on Westminster Bridge at breakfast time asking the plebs what they thought about the result and what their hopes were. One seemingly old woman pushing a pram - she was probably no more than 55 although presented as about 80 - spoke in a strong cockney accent. She said she hoped that Mr Wilson would sort out the dampness in all the pensioners' slum houses - the young business types who were interviewed had also highlighted old people's poverty as an outrage - and get us into the Common Market. Frankly I was gobsmacked to hear that someone from her background had been in favour. Probably the bigwigs saw it and decided to put it on hold until the 1970s as it might give people like her too much of a sense of clout.

6 June 2013 - 6 June 2019 - Sometime during this period, there was a referendum. I voted to stay in although I had come to the conclusion I didn't give a toss about the result. Factually, neither option was good, let alone great. When the result came through, I fully accepted it and have done ever since. I still see it as neither good nor bad. Rather it is something which just happened. The lack of acceptance of the outcome by many has astonished me, saddened me, angered me and irritated me. It has been like watching millions decide cult like that we moved at that time into a time warp of 2016. That arguments relevant to the referendum should ever have been felt to be relevant after it seems utterly absurd. But the most incredible aspect of it all is the orgiastic love-in from these legions. They - and it - have emerged from precisely nowhere given that no love whatsoever was ever declared by ordinary members of the public for the institution for more than a third of a century. Consequently, my perspective on it and I realise there are others, just as many have concerns about whether we will be able to sexually reproduce if some or other bomb destroys the planet, is that these armies are fake.

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Briosaid

  • Friday 31st January 2020, 11:07pm
  • Scotland
  • 1,257 posts

Not a sound of a single firework here. Thank the gods the people where I live are too intelligent to fall for the shite from Johnson, Rees-Mogg, thicko Farage et al.