Taking a pop at lazy racists is old hat now. I'd rather see the finger pointed at the closet racists that exist on the left. These are the sort who preach their inclusive "all things to all people" dogma, but are quick to point the finger at the faults they see in other cultures. There are various countries that the likes of Blair et al try to bring their brand of "democracy" to. They and I know NOTHING about these people,their culture or their view of life as a whole, and it is an insult to them and their way of life to attempt to change thousands of years of culture. This country itself is hardly a shining beacon of democratic virtue.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 9th March 2014, 1:19 AM GMT

I guess it's easy to champion mass immigration and deride UKIP when you're not personally effected by immigration in your most ivory of towers. And as always with those who attack UKIP, no mention or criticism of the policies, just useless spin.

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It's perfectly possible to have an opinion about something that doesn't personally affect you. Perhaps more people in the UK should try it.

But that's by the by. As it was, I think this was a fair point, he dissected a stupid comment by one of UKIP. Yes, I'm aware the other parties have said and done stupid things relating to immigration but I'm not sure how a codicil to that effect would have improved this piece, either as political observation or comedy.

As for the show, it was OK. I don't like Lee so much when he addresses large issues, because I don't think his multui-layered ironic style really suits it; it was the same with that episode about Scottish national identity, that didn't quite hit for me. And whilst the line about making Liverpool prosperous may have ben ana ctual joke, it didn't seem like a very funny one.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 9th March 2014, 1:19 AM GMT

I also found the whole thing a little hypocritical - the man works in the most closeted, racist, non-inclusive industries in Britain - comedy and television.

The irony of when he said 'If you tune in and this show is dubbed in Polish with Romanian subtitles' - I bet if the best and brightest Bulgarian comedians were coming over to the UK and taking away his stand up spots and television shows, he might have a different spin on the subject. Luckily, British xenophobia and intolerance for foreign accents is keeping him in a job.

His kids might go to a multi-ethnic nursery, but I've yet to see a black comedian on his Comedy Vehicle - as either interviewer or sketch performer. Forget black, how about a Polish performer or even a British Asian? His all white audience in the studio might enjoy seeing a bit of diversity.

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Off the top of my head Stephen K Amos was in a sketch, also his other show featuring lots of different standup comedians had an asian guy I seem to remember. Given this country is 90% white I'd say the ratio of his performers is pretty close.

It was a pretty tired counter-argument to the anti-immigration brigade though, would have preferred a more imaginative, fresh approach if he's going to bother taking the subject on at all. It's pointless to expect a comedian to accurately portray both sides of the argument around a subject, virtually every comedian intentionally twists and reduces one side of the argument to absurdity to get jokes out of it.

Quote: Raymond Terrific @ 9th March 2014, 12:56 PM GMT

It was a pretty tired counter-argument to the anti-immigration brigade though, would have preferred a more imaginative, fresh approach if he's going to bother taking the subject on at all. It's pointless to expect a comedian to accurately portray both sides of the argument around a subject, virtually every comedian intentionally twists and reduces one side of the argument to absurdity to get jokes out of it.

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Yeah, I'm more let down that he didn't bring anything original to the table or gave us a fresh, thought provoking insight to the whole debate. It was also telling that his xenophobic jokes about Liverpool - 'Stop going on about the old days in a whiney accent' - got the biggest laughs.

But I get your point about using the absurdity of an argument to get the jokes out - eg. In Stewart Lee world there are no black or Asian cab drivers, just white racist ones.

Quote: gappy @ 9th March 2014, 11:55 AM GMT

Yes, I'm aware the other parties have said and done stupid things relating to immigration but I'm not sure how a codicil to that effect would have improved this piece, either as political observation or comedy.

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That's just it, the other parties have real power and their decisions change lives, they're able to say and do whatever they like because the London, left wing media is obsessed with UKIP - a party with no MPs.

I really didn't expect Lee to gleefully jump on the bandwagon and blurt out the same predictable rubbish that every liberal comic is doing about UKIP. I suppose when you are given an acceptable form of bigotry it's difficult to stop yourself from joining in on the hate fest.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 9th March 2014, 1:28 PM GMT

That's just it, the other parties have real power and their decisions change lives, they're able to say and do whatever they like because the London, left wing media is obsessed with UKIP - a party with no MPs.

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I know exactly what you mean, RC, but I don't think it invalidates the point; I think it's perfectly valid to indicate the flaws in a statement by a public voice, even if that voice may not be the loudest...just as it's valid to point out the flaws in a statement by a taxi driver nobody's ever heard of.

Also, UKIP may not have a vast amount of power, but they have some, and are definitely within the political arena, with or without MPs: in fact, my favourite part of the show (both as a joke and a political comment) was the part about protest votes being like shitting in a hotel bed.

I am aware that UKIP has become the Coldplay of politics, the thing its easy and acceptable to publicly decry and be sure to get a low-value laugh, but I do think that by focussing the routine on one particular quotation, Lee wasn't *too* guilty of that. Having said all this, I don't think it's anywhere remotely near the most entertaining or astute thing he's done, so perhaps UKIP proclamations aren't the most fertile ground for material.

This story shows how misguided Stew was to have a go at UKIP.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576517/UKIP-candidate-forwarded-racist-e-mail-ranting-against-family-murdered-Stephen-Lawrence.html

Quote: Phoenix Lazarus @ 9th March 2014, 2:05 PM GMT

This story shows how misguided Stew was to have a go at UKIP.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576517/UKIP-candidate-forwarded-racist-e-mail-ranting-against-family-murdered-Stephen-Lawrence.html

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How?

Jumping on the anti ukip bandwagon?

Good!

Everyone pile on

The more the merrier

And I think he did it in a brilliant way too

Quote: lofthouse @ 9th March 2014, 2:29 PM GMT

And I think he did it in a brilliant way too

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But it wasn't brilliant, it was preaching to the converted, his routine in no way questioned preconceived notions, the humour lacked any kind of real satirical bite. He might as well have just come on and said: 'UKIP are stupid heads. Hee, hee, hee.'

Now if he'd linked UKIP to the SNP and delved into the very notion of nationalism, both good and bad and drew parallels between Scotland leaving the Union and Britain leaving the EU, then he might have been onto something.

But as it is, you're not allowed to criticise the SNP because their nationalism is based on socialism - a kind of National Socialism if you will.

Yes, you get arrested and thrown in jail for that.

Quote: Phoenix Lazarus @ 9th March 2014, 2:05 PM GMT

This story shows how misguided Stew was to have a go at UKIP.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576517/UKIP-candidate-forwarded-racist-e-mail-ranting-against-family-murdered-Stephen-Lawrence.html

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I'm more interested in how Labour have introduced strict immigration laws into their manifesto based on the popularity of UKIP. Yep, laws, not emails.

Quote: zooo @ 9th March 2014, 4:42 PM GMT

Yes, you get arrested and thrown in jail for that.

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Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 9th March 2014, 4:40 PM GMT

But it wasn't brilliant, it was preaching to the converted, his routine in no way questioned preconceived notions, the humour lacked any kind of real satirical bite. He might as well have just come on and said: 'UKIP are stupid heads. Hee, hee, hee.'

Now if he'd linked UKIP to the SNP and delved into the very notion of nationalism, both good and bad and drew parallels between Scotland leaving the Union and Britain leaving the EU, then he might have been onto something.

But as it is, you're not allowed to criticise the SNP because their nationalism is based on socialism - a kind of National Socialism if you will.

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I thought it was very clever

The whole Indian/Pakistani , anglo-Saxons, beaker people, Neolithic , fishes etc thang

Made me chuckle anyhoooo

His hairdresser can't think much of him.

Quote: lofthouse @ 9th March 2014, 8:05 PM GMT

I thought it was very clever

The whole Indian/Pakistani , anglo-Saxons, beaker people, Neolithic , fishes etc thang

Made me chuckle anyhoooo

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This.

Perhaps there's more willing targets for Lee's ire, but this particular show was about UKIP. I certainly didn't come out of this feeling short changed.

Quote: Raymond Terrific @ 9th March 2014, 2:13 PM GMT

How?

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Missed out of my post.

I liked the Nothing Song, and how it sounded like a typical East End piano/music hall sing-song from the 1930/40s. That would be the sort of song old people might nostalgically sing today, harking back to the 'good old days'. Lee was obviously relating that to UKIP's implicit vision of the 'good old days' before immigration after World War Two.