Quote: David Bussell @ April 4 2012, 8:19 AM BSTThe format popularised by Christopher Guest you mean?
Christopher Guest made The Rutles?
Mockumentary Comedy Page 3
A Midsummers Night Dream, features a play made with in a play and extensive scenes involving its production. With characters discussion around motivation etc informing the humour of the final production.
I'd say that's pretty much a mockumentary.
Only 400 years early.
I rule.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ April 4 2012, 10:00 AM BSTChristopher Guest made The Rutles?
Note he said popularised, rather than claiming he was the first.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ April 4 2012, 10:00 AM BSTChristopher Guest made The Rutles?
I did make the distinction "popularised". I'd argue it was Spinal Tap (admittedly Rob Reiner directed) that really landed the genre. As Sooty says though, who exactly invented the mockumentary style is hard to define (and from where I'm sitting, not all that important).
Which is why I said Gervais, not the ones who tried before him. And to be fair, he very publicly said it was TIST that inspired him and lavished praise on it, which couldn't have done the careers of Guest and co. any harm at the time.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ April 4 2012, 10:02 AM BSTIt's okay to borrow an idea and use it in a format it hasn't been in yet, but for a minor sitcom or two, and make that a smash hit, as Gervais did, I'd say yes. Much more okay than every producer/writer in America (it didn't happen here) simply jumping on the bandwagon of its success and exploiting it to death like a fad product, imo.
I don't see how one instance of "borrowing" is okay but the other not. 'This is Spinal Tap' is considered a "smash hit" (featuring in just about every top 100 list of films), so was Gervais wrong to appropriate the style for a sitcom? He admits a heavy debt to Christoper Guest et al so was he jumping on the bandwagon of their success?
The way I see it, Gervais is just one part of a long chain of recyclers. Some of the stuff that get's reconstituted is dreck (that goes for both sides of the pond, though perhaps more from the States, where their output is more prolific) and some of it is gold. Are superb shows like Modern Family and Parks and Recreation not worth watching because they re-use a format Gervais once popularised?
Quote: David Bussell @ April 4 2012, 10:38 AM BSTI don't see how one instance of "borrowing" is okay but the other not. 'This is Spinal Tap' is considered a "smash hit"
It is indeed, a great film, far better than The Rutles.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ April 4 2012, 10:42 AM BSTIt is indeed, a great film, far better than The Rutles.
I've never actually seen The Rutles. My knowledge of The Beatles is pretty patchy so I've always thought the joke would be lost on me.
TIST is a bit different in style, which is partly why it became such a big hit, and it's fair to say it created that mock-rockumentary style where you actully believe it's real or straight for a while. The Rutles, while a great idea, is much more a sort of injoke spoof rockumentary where you know the thing is a send up from the start. So there is a difference in styles.
To be fair The Rutles is very good in bits, it just goes on too long because Idle's too indulgent a writer.
Quote: David Bussell @ April 4 2012, 10:38 AM BSTHe admits a heavy debt to Christoper Guest et al so was he jumping on the bandwagon of their success?
So Christopher Guest can rip off The Rutles - a spoof music documentary and popularise it and that's okay. But if Ricky Gervais rips off Spinal Tap and makes a spoof documentary - in a different format and with a different subject - he suddenly owes fealty?
Your logic has more holes then my underpants - which is a minimum of three.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ April 4 2012, 11:18 AM BSTSo Christopher Guest can rip off The Rutles - a spoof music documentary and popularise it and that's okay. But if Ricky Gervais rips off Spinal Tap and makes a spoof documentary - for a differenet format and with a different subject - he suddenly owes fealty?
Your logic has more holes then my underpants - which is a minimum of three.
My point obviously isn't coming across - I'm saying I don't care who invented the mockumentary format or who applies it to what format. The only thing I care about is whether the end result is funny.
Quote: David Bussell @ April 4 2012, 11:22 AM BSTThe only thing I care about is whether the end result is funny.
Like Twenty Twelve funny or like, proper funny?
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ April 4 2012, 11:24 AM BSTLike Twenty Twelve funny or like, proper funny?
I'm not a fan of that show, which is a bold statement in my house given that the wife works for the Olympics Delivery Authority.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ April 4 2012, 11:18 AM BSTSo Christopher Guest can rip off The Rutles - a spoof music documentary and popularise it and that's okay.
Rip off? Dear me.
A Hard Day's Night, anyone?