Quote: Matthew Stott @ March 19 2012, 10:10 PM GMT

To be fair, Modern Family is a great sitcom, but a terrible Mock-Doc. I mean, what is the show they're being recorded for supposed to even be? Why are they being followed, why do they let these people see all these moments, often very private moments? None of it makes any sense. But it IS a great show. Just a shit Mock-Doc.

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It's what we're watching. A mock-doc doesn't include the rushes, the cuts. It's about an, uh, modern family. That it shows a wide range of stuff rather than just trying to make the mundane funny, is why it itself is a very funny series and not the kind of pathetic, repetitive affair our broadcasters have treated us to.

I do like Modern Family.

They use the mock dock thing as just a few more tools in their comedy toolkit. A bit like the inner monologue stuff in Peep Show.

Quote: Matthew Stott @ March 19 2012, 10:10 PM GMT

To be fair, Modern Family is a great sitcom, but a terrible Mock-Doc. I mean, what is the show they're being recorded for supposed to even be? Why are they being followed, why do they let these people see all these moments, often very private moments? None of it makes any sense. But it IS a great show. Just a shit Mock-Doc.

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Agreed. They pretty much gave up on the mock-doc thing halfway through the first series. I don't think it matters much though. MoFa is basically a traditional US family sitcom with a decent script and an above average cast. That's good enough for me, and it felt like everyone was more comfortable when they stopped trying to shoehorn all the fly on the wall stuff in. Now they'll happily include many, many shots of Phil and Claire, Jay and Gloria or Mitchell and Cameron looking at us through the windscreen of a moving car without bothering to wonder how realistic it would be for the Dutch documentary crew to be perched on the bonnet filming it. I, for one, have no problem with this whatsoever.

The Thick Of It definitely isn't a mock-doc. It uses handheld/shaky cam partly because it mirrors the aesthetic of investigative TV journalism but mostly because the show is part-improvised and it allows the cast a lot more freedom of movement. Look at Curb and you'll see much the same thing.

Both are bloody ace, but Human Remains is probably my favourite recent 'proper' mockumentary. The Office also did it very, very well.

Quote: Aaron @ March 19 2012, 10:51 PM GMT

It's what we're watching. A mock-doc doesn't include the rushes, the cuts. It's about an, uh, modern family. That it shows a wide range of stuff rather than just trying to make the mundane funny, is why it itself is a very funny series and not the kind of pathetic, repetitive affair our broadcasters have treated us to.

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I still argue it does not work as a mock-Doc if you actually think about what you're seeing. Yes, it's brilliant and very funny and I love it, one of my favourite current shows, but if you set yourself up as a moc-doc, that cameras are actually following them around, you should really follow some sort of logic, taking that fact into account. It could have exactly the same kind of humour, but it would need to actually follow some sort of tether to the reality of what a mock-doc would be, what the cameras would see, and how people would act.

Again, great, funny show, amazing show; but it's clearly a pretty awful mock-doc that ignores the fact that that is what it's set itself up to be. Basically just using it as an excuse to have those lovely talk to camera bits.

Quote: notoriousrory @ March 20 2012, 5:26 AM GMT

Agreed. They pretty much gave up on the mock-doc thing halfway through the first series. I don't think it matters much though.

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Yeah, it really doesn't matter because it's such a funny show.

I love Modern Family, but I remember being a bit miffed when I started noticing they were breaking the MocDoc rules. At first I thought they were mistakes, but soon realised it was being done on purpose and that they were actually walking a very fine line - employing the style and structure of a MocDoc, but jettisoning the rules whenever it suited them. It could so easily have ruined the show, and I think there have been critics who were pretty vocal about this when Season 1 first aired, but I think it gets away with it.

Arrested Development did a similar thing, only in that case it appeared as if the Bluth family were being filmed without their knowledge even though that was impossible. I think that's mentioned in one of the DVD commentaries, but they don't go into details, probably because it is a very vague concept.

It's the kind of thing that I usually let get right under my skin. I'm a sucker for bad continuity or logical flaws, but with both these shows it didn't bother me. There's a sophistication to the rule breaking that allows me to not get hung up on it and it also helps that both shows are very, very funny.

Arrested Development had a narrator which is a more traditional method of providing what the talking heads deliver. They're a great way of providing exposition or details without having to script it... sitcoms do only have 20-30 minutes to get a story out.

As far as characters breaking the fourth wall like the modern talking heads... George Burns did it in the old George and Gracie shows; Bugs Bunny and Ferris Bueller also spring right to mind.

Parks & Rec has lots of talking heads and camera gags without it ever really being explained why.

I like the format, particularly The Office and Twenty Twelve. Although, I don't know that it's specifically because of the format that I like them. Rather, that I like them, and they happen to have that format.

My favourite comedies are in the mocku-form like Spinal Tap, The Office and People Like Us. But it's gone too far for the time being, it's being crammed into almost all American sitcoms. Modern Family and Arrested Development didn't need it, shows that bend reality almost too much makes them not work as mockumentaries.

Check out parks and recreation on HBO. This show is a great example I feel of a well done mockumentary.

Quote: Jowan Mounsey @ March 29 2012, 1:10 PM BST

But it's gone too far for the time being, it's being crammed into almost all American sitcoms.

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That's the Americans for you, just see things from a commercial perspective. They saw a new trend being popular when they watched The Office and jumped all over it, and now there's at least half a dozen US sitcoms kicking the format to death and making people sick of it. That's what the Americans do.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ April 4 2012, 8:12 AM BST

That's the Americans for you, just see things from a commercial perspective. They saw a new trend being popular when they watched The Office and jumped all over it, and now there's at least half a dozen US sitcoms kicking the format to death and making people sick of it. That's what the Americans do.

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The format popularised by Christopher Guest you mean?

That's the one, the format popularised by him in films which Gervais then made popular in sitcoms, which inspired many other sitcoms to follow.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ April 4 2012, 8:54 AM BST

That's the one, the format popularised by him in films which Gervais then made popular in sitcoms, which inspired many other sitcoms to follow.

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So it's okay to borrow an idea just so long as you switch the format? Gotcha. How about if I make a mockumentary set in an office, only this time it's a feature length film?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Holzman%27s_Diary

Aparently it's American and made in 1967.