Erm, Jo Brand, Millican, Perkins, they seem to be doing alright, making a good living anywayb but it's mainly out of panel show work itself, yes. I'm not sure some of the big big creative comedy names want to do panel shows, or I'm sure they would be already, eg. VW and F&S. Panel show work I'd say is seen more as a career stepping stone for the not yet hugely famous, but wannabe one day. When you've already made it, like VW and F&S, why would you want to risk doing panel shows? which I think look like hard work for a comic for fairly little reward in terms of money.

Quote: Harridan @ February 21 2012, 10:28 AM GMT

As 50% of the population (and let's assume that women make up about 50% of comics too, just to make it easy) it is strange that less than 20% of panel show guests are women. Women aren't a minority group, or even close to being a minority group, and I don't think that female comics are a minority in any real sense either. The reason it's a problem that those women making it on are not comics is that panel show guests are recycled so if a producer is choosing guests based on how witty they were, they're more likely to choose the male comedian than the female actress. Until the numbers even out a bit more I think we do need either a bit of tokenism so that female comics and presenters can get on at the same time, or just for producers to pick female comics instead.

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Aside from filling quotas and ticking boxes, I'm not sure forcing unsuitable panel show comedians onto the audience is the best approach for quality television.

Yes, panel shows are male dominated because as I've stated before, they bring the best results for that particular format. It has nothing to do with comparative brain size or composition, but more do to with levels of testosterone, social conditioning and historical precedent.

There are lots of funny female comics out there, but the panel show may not be the best arena to showcase their talents. I think it does a disservice to them and to the viewer if they are crowbarred in for the sake of gender equality alone.

And if you want to get down to the brass tacks of gender equality and television, then you must surely be aware that just about every daytime and prime time television show is aimed almost exclusively at women.

So you can have your 50/50 panel show mix, if I don't have to sit through constant shows about cooking, dancing, ice skating, singing, weddings, babies, hospitals, etc. plus the 40,000 hours a week devoted to soap operas and period drama crap involving butlers and midwives.

Oh and stay away from Top Gear - even though 40% of the audience for that show are women too. No wonder blokes invented the Internet. Bah.

Quote: Harridan @ February 20 2012, 11:49 PM GMT

Mark Watson wrote an article about how unpleasant an experience Mock the Week was for him, and I've always found him quite an impressive comedian. http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/mark-watson/2010/06/mock-feel-shows-felt-series

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This I found rather depressing:

I'm sure I won't shock too many people if I say that shows like Mock the Week are mostly pre-planned...

...I also like to improvise and banter, but there isn't much space for that on a show like Mock the Week.

Perhaps why MTW always seems so lifeless compared to a show like WILTY where a degree of improvisation and banter are essential to the format.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ February 21 2012, 11:12 AM GMT

Erm, Jo Brand, Millican, Perkins, they seem to be doing alright, making a good living anywayb but it's mainly out of panel show work itself, yes. I'm not sure some of the big big creative comedy names want to do panel shows, or I'm sure they would be already, eg. VW and F&S. Panel show work I'd say is seen more as a career stepping stone for the not yet hugely famous, but wannabe one day. When you've already made it, like VW and F&S, why would you want to risk doing panel shows? which I think look like hard work for a comic for fairly little reward in terms of money.

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Well they're different types of comics from those who really appear on panel shows. They're more writer-actress than stand-up. When people like that do appear on panel shows (thinking Miranda Hart), they appear to be presented more for theie celebrity than their comedy status.

True, maybe they're just not selected then. But then Andy Hamilton's on quite often and he's a writer, not even a writer/performer like VW and F&S. ? I personally think producers think he looks funny, like Warwick Davies and want to get laughs out of that. But I think he's a good guest. Maybe not everyone wants to do it, bringing me back to my first point. Or I'm sure those three would be on more.

I'd count Sue Perkins as being one of the comedians, not the non-comedians.

So do I, but a comedian who has become a full time presenter and panel show regular, so the short memoried or newish viewers won't see or know her as a comedian really. She's probably not the only one it's happening to but seems to be the most obvious one.

True.

Quote: Aaron @ February 21 2012, 11:15 AM GMT

Well they're different types of comics from those who really appear on panel shows. They're more writer-actress than stand-up.

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But there are plenty of male humourists, sitcom writers, sketch performers and comedy actors who are not stand-ups and regularly do panel shows; Hamilton has been mentioned, but also David Mitchell, Robert Webb, Graeme Garden, Tim Brooke-Taylor, Martin Clunes, Barry Cryer, Ian Hislop, Charlie Brooker, Danny Baker, Jeremy Clarkson, and at least as hosts, Stephen Fry, Angus Deayton, Alexander Armstrong. (I would also put Sue Perkins more in this category by the way).

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ February 21 2012, 11:14 AM GMT

Aside from filling quotas and ticking boxes, I'm not sure forcing unsuitable panel show comedians onto the audience is the best approach for quality television.

Yes, panel shows are male dominated because as I've stated before, they bring the best results for that particular format. It has nothing to do with comparative brain size or composition, but more do to with levels of testosterone, social conditioning and historical precedent.

There are lots of funny female comics out there, but the panel show may not be the best arena to showcase their talents. I think it does a disservice to them and to the viewer if they are crowbarred in for the sake of gender equality alone.

And if you want to get down to the brass tacks of gender equality and television, then you must surely be aware that just about every daytime and prime time television show is aimed almost exclusively at women.

So you can have your 50/50 panel show mix, if I don't have to sit through constant shows about cooking, dancing, ice skating, singing, weddings, babies, hospitals, etc. plus the 40,000 hours a week devoted to soap operas and period drama crap involving butlers and midwives.

Oh and stay away from Top Gear - even though 40% of the audience for that show are women too. No wonder blokes invented the Internet. Bah.

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It never gets tiring seeing you quote your own posts to back up your own 'arguments'. Saying "As I've stated" doesn't really support anything does it?...unless you are assuming everyone has, firstly, accepted what you 'stated' as a fact.
Throw in a "I know somebody who..." and this thread has all the RP box of tricks for 'reasoned' argument.

Mm. Can we try to avoid taking the piss out of 5 year old kids, just for one day, like. :/

Quote: zooo @ February 21 2012, 12:19 PM GMT

Mm. Can we try to avoid taking the piss out of 5 year old kids, just for one day, like. :/

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Sorry

Ha, it's okay we forgive you.

Quote: zooo @ February 21 2012, 12:19 PM GMT

Mm. Can we try to avoid taking the piss out of 5 year old kids, just for one day, like. :/

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Never did Morris Mitchener any harm.

Did we really need another thread about how much better men are at everything?