Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 1st August 2017, 9:52 PM

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 31st July 2017, 12:09 PM

... Well he was rubbish whatever he was. Francis was another one England played forever even though couldn't score for them. ...

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Do you mind not putting words into my mouth!

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 1st August 2017, 9:52 PM

Well yes they were very dodgy in that he dropped the best players for fitness fanatics and turned the World Cup into a weird run until you drop on a football field competition that didn't exactly set the world alight. A bit of a contrast to the style Brazil won the next one.

in.

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So your "superior" 1966 team would have been?

Goalie Karen Bardsley broke her leg in the France game. Bugger!

I think they've got a spare, goalie I mean, not leg. Anyway I think the defence is pretty sound from what I saw.

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 1st August 2017, 11:21 PM

So your "superior" 1966 team would have been?

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Defence was okay, I would've tweaked midfield and up front. Greaves in for Hurst, pretty obviously. Hurst took his chance superbly but he shouldn't have been in there with Greaves' astonishing goal record. An act of treachery by the coach.
And Haynes in for Stiles, the comparison in class between these two is laughable. Only the charmless dullard Ramsey would have discarded a player like Haynes in the first place.
You could have had others in like Callaghan who played well in his one game, more skilful than Peters or the assured Venables in for Ball but with hindsight we know both had a fantastic final, but were suited to Ramsey's simple running up and down game plan with little width or creativeness. It was all about fitness and a manly pride thing to show the Germans.

Johnny Haynes wasn't even in the squad. He was already 32 at the time and playing for Fulham!

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 3rd August 2017, 12:06 AM

Only the charmless dullard Ramsey would have discarded a player like Haynes in the first place.

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Yes that's why I wrote the above, Chappers. smiles He shouldn't have been dropped by Ramsey when he took over. He was 31 at time of world cup and won over 50 caps while at Fulham, where Cohen played. Jack Charlton and Wilson were both 31 and played in every game. So why couldn't one of the greatest England midfielders of all time? I think England won despite Ramsey. Wembley helped.

Ramsey buggered up the 1970 world cup effort with the same stubborn methods proving he got lucky in 66. Awful anti football coach. >_<

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 3rd August 2017, 12:06 AM

I think they've got a spare, goalie I mean, not leg. Anyway I think the defence is pretty sound from what I saw.

Defence was okay, I would've tweaked midfield and up front. Greaves in for Hurst, pretty obviously. Hurst took his chance superbly but he shouldn't have been in there with Greaves' astonishing goal record. An act of treachery by the coach.
And Haynes in for Stiles, the comparison in class between these two is laughable. Only the charmless dullard Ramsey would have discarded a player like Haynes in the first place.
You could have had others in like Callaghan who played well in his one game, more skilful than Peters or the assured Venables in for Ball but with hindsight we know both had a fantastic final, but were suited to Ramsey's simple running up and down game plan with little width or creativeness. It was all about fitness and a manly pride thing to show the Germans.

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Well, of course, he did start the tournament with Greaves but he was injured (although he didn't score in any of the three games in which he played, whereas his replacement, Geoff Hurst, scored 4 in the three that he started).

The main problem with your suggested adjustments to the team is that Baddiel & Skinner would have had to change their lyrics from "30 years of hurt" to "124 years of hurt" and that doesn't scan quite as well.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 3rd August 2017, 12:59 AM

Yes that's why I wrote the above, Chappers. smiles He shouldn't have been dropped by Ramsey when he took over. He was 31 at time of world cup and won over 50 caps while at Fulham, where Cohen played. Jack Charlton and Wilson were both 31 and played in every game. So why couldn't one of the greatest England midfielders of all time? I think England won despite Ramsey. Wembley helped.

Ramsey buggered up the 1970 world cup effort with the same stubborn methods proving he got lucky in 66. Awful anti football coach. >_<

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I'm actually too young to have ever seen Haynes. Either in real life or on TV. I've no idea if he was any good.

Anyway! Come on England!

Oh no, they're copying the men's team, not a good idea. Can't keep hold of the ball, more training needed or new players who can pass accurately and are comfortable keeping the ball longer. They played hoof ball like they were scared of having it.

There's very little of Haynes on you tube, alas, mainly just interviews with the odd rubbish clip taken before sports cameramen developed a way of following the ball, so you see him shoot, then see the keeper pick ball out of net. Seems very poor coverage of him, when there's much more on earlier players, very odd. You'll have to read about him. He wasn't as gifted as Greaves, who does have some good you tube clips, England's Georgie Best and not far off his style either, sensational striker.

They're before my time as well btw, in case you thought I was there. My Dad saw them both play and told me about them and had to wait 40 years to see clips of Greaves and still haven't seen anything decent of Haynes. He told me that Haynes once killed the Portsmouth goal keeper with a shot at goal. I still have no idea if that was true or not.

Quote: Chappers @ 3rd August 2017, 7:40 PM

..Haynes. I've no idea if he was any good.

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He wasn't. Old-school knobbly toecaps, lots of brylcreem and often studs-up dirty. I am minded of the Baddiel/Skinner pastiche: 'Old football was sh*te'.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 31st July 2017, 1:06 AM

He and others like Charlie George, Alan Clarke, Ray Kennedy were denied more caps by England not qualifying for any tourney for the whole f**king decade from 1970 and appalling conservative Hodgson type managers who picked work mule forwards like Mullery and Mariner who couldn't hit a barn door between them over goal scoring talent we had.

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Old Alf refused to pick any long-haired players until 1973, when under the weight of media pressure, he caved in and picked Tony Currie, but it was far too late. He should have been picking Worthington, Rogers, Venables, Todd, Bowles and Charlie George (to name but 6) in the late 60s/early 70s, but either their hair was too long, or they had 'dodgy' reputations off the pitch, or sometimes both. Whatever the reasons, he didn't like any of 'em.

I watched the final as a lad in 1966. For years afterwards, I remembered the final as one of the most exciting games I'd ever seen. Came the time (1996 ?) when the News of the World gave away a free dvd (?) of the whole game. I watched it again and I couldn't believe my eyes. It was one of the worst, the most boring games I've ever seen. Both teams were awful. Neither could string two passes together to save their lives. Beckenbauer had a stinker. Bobby Charlton was terrible. How Cohen ever made it to professional status, let alone get picked for England, I'll never know. Peters ('10 years ahead of his time'-remember?) was carp. The best player for England was the russian linesman. We were so lucky.

In 1970, a certain young man was full of expectations of an England squad containing Worthington, Todd, Rogers, Alan Hinton, Venables, Whittle etc. What did we get? Mullery, Fatty Lee and the immobile flat-footed Brian Labone. Good grief. What a team we could have had. Alf was lucky ever to win anything. Cheers.

2017/18 FA Cup gets underway this weekend. Littlehampton away to Chatham.

I have wagered a fiver each way on Sutton @ 33/1 for the National League. Chappers, should I spend my winnings yet?

The mighty Sutton United beat relegated Leyton Orient 2-0 in front of the BT cameras. Top of the league for about an hour or so!

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 4th August 2017, 6:17 PM

I have wagered a fiver each way on Sutton @ 33/1 for the National League. Chappers, should I spend my winnings yet?

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Quote: Chappers @ 5th August 2017, 4:50 PM

The mighty Sutton United beat relegated Leyton Orient 2-0 in front of the BT cameras. Top of the league for about an hour or so!

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I'll take that as a yes then, shall I?

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 4th August 2017, 6:17 PM

I have wagered a fiver each way on Sutton @ 33/1 for the National League. Chappers, should I spend my winnings yet?

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Does each way mean you win some money if they're not Champions?

Yes, £211.25 if they win it; £46.25 if they finish 2nd or 3rd.

Hmmm. I'm not that confident!