The real culprits that created the present Brexit situation are those that signed the Lisbon Treaty and the Maastrict Treaty without first putting it to a Referendum.
As I understand it, they put as many obstacles in the way of having a referendum as is currently being done (possibly by the same people) to prevent a sane Brexit.
Boris is being told effectively: Go forth and negotiate a better deal than Teresa May did but first we are going to tie your hands behind your back.
The powers that be invited the public to express an opinion with regard to membership (or otherwise) of the EU.
The powers that be didn't agree with the opinion that was expressed.
Couldn't they simply have declared it "off topic"? 
With Boris back home at Number 10, the arguments about Brexit go on . . . and on.
There are some very clever and well-informed people on both sides of the argument but I'm not sure how many of those people there are on each side.
What I do know is that the British public (on average) know and understand as much about Brexit as animals know and understand about the best way to run a zoo, and as much as primary schoolchildren know and understand about complex educational matters.
The fact of the matter is that the average person in Britain knows and understands absolutely bugger all about Brexit and, accordingly, should never in a million years have been allowed to vote on the matter.
Boris's proroguing of Parliament has been deemed meaningless by the Supreme Court but it isn't nearly as meaningless as the result of the Brexit referendum.
As any mathematician will tell you, if you toss a coin in the air 34 million times, you're going to get roughly 50% heads and 50% tails.
Similarly, if you ask 34 million people a question that almost none of them understand and ask them to answer either "A" or "B", you're going to get roughly 50% "A's" and 50% "B's" - and that's exactly what happened.
So why was the ballot paper in English or indeed in any language that Earth people understand? They could have printed it in Klingon and it wouldn't have affected the result!
The entire affair was a joke from the start: we should wind the clocks back and just forget it ever happened.
Getting away from politics did you see about this woman mauled to death by two dogs?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-49824186
Really why does anyone want or trust a dog that looks like that unless they want to prove their "masculinity"?
Quote: Chappers @ 25th September 2019, 6:24 PMGetting away from politics did you see about this woman mauled to death by two dogs?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-49824186
Really why does anyone want or trust a dog that looks like that unless they want to prove their "masculinity"?
Elayne (for that was the woman's name) and/or her partner if she has one might well have acquired the dogs in order to deter ne'er-do-wells from entering the family home uninvited.
In principle, owning a large aggressive dog is very similar to owning a gun: you have to weigh the risks of it damaging you or your family against the considerable security benefits attached to its ownership.
I'd bet a pound to a penny that Elayne's house has not been burgled while those two dogs have been living there but the question that springs to my mind is exactly how long those dogs have been living there, and how long have they known Elayne.
If she's raised them from puppyhood and treated them well, I'm at a total loss to explain why they attacked her.
However, if they were acquired fully-grown, that's pretty much the same as keeping a loaded gun at home with the safety catch off and tossing it around the room to other family members just for a laugh every night.
We need more information on this story before we can come to any sort of conclusion.
Quote: Chappers @ 25th September 2019, 6:24 PMGetting away from politics did you see about this woman mauled to death by two dogs?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-49824186
Really why does anyone want or trust a dog that looks like that unless they want to prove their "masculinity"?
Such a tragic story but because a dog is big doesn't mean they are owned as a trophy or for intimidation. I'm not familiar with that breed but the faces have character. Obviously they must be destroyed if they haven't already and one theory assuming they were well treated and raised from puppies by her is one could have attacked her to try and take over as the top dog in their pack and the other one joined in. If she got them as adults then that was taking a big risk especially for a woman living alone with them because in a pack there is always a power struggle going on.
I grew up with Rottweilers all raised from 8 weeks old and seen with their mums and while they grew up to be amazingly friendly dogs and loved socialising there was always a safety consideration because all dogs are unpredictable. I never fell asleep on the sofa if it was just me and the dogs in the room even though they were more pampered family pets than guard dogs.
Quote: Rood Eye @ 25th September 2019, 6:23 PMWith Boris back home at Number 10, the arguments about Brexit go on . . . and on.
There are some very clever and well-informed people on both sides of the argument but I'm not sure how many of those people there are on each side.
What I do know is that the British public (on average) know and understand as much about Brexit as animals know and understand about the best way to run a zoo, and as much as primary schoolchildren know and understand about complex educational matters.
The fact of the matter is that the average person in Britain knows and understands absolutely bugger all about Brexit and, accordingly, should never in a million years have been allowed to vote on the matter.
Boris's proroguing of Parliament has been deemed meaningless by the Supreme Court but it isn't nearly as meaningless as the result of the Brexit referendum.
As any mathematician will tell you, if you toss a coin in the air 34 million times, you're going to get roughly 50% heads and 50% tails.
Similarly, if you ask 34 million people a question that almost none of them understand and ask them to answer either "A" or "B", you're going to get roughly 50% "A's" and 50% "B's" - and that's exactly what happened.
So why was the ballot paper in English or indeed in any language that Earth people understand? They could have printed it in Klingon and it wouldn't have affected the result!
The entire affair was a joke from the start: we should wind the clocks back and just forget it ever happened.
No sorry. I am sure you a very nice bloke but that is fascistic liberalism to a tee. You are standing above a supposed ignorant public but when you are able to discuss with me the common heritage of liberalism and fascism which is almost identical at root then I might start to listen. I don't place myself above. I just like to ensure that we are all on an equal footing. Liberalism is fine. The imposition of extreme liberal fascism which I'm guessing will lead ultimately to enforced veganism is one of Hitler's wet dreams. The epitome of this is anal sex which has been regularised among heterosexuals.
Almost expected now as part of the zeitgeist in a way that it never was before, that "open minded liberalism" requires a willing partner to have their body used unnaturally as a doormat so that later they will need to seek medical help and give the proponents the expectation that everyone else is similarly minded. We are not. So when they push and shove their way through Tescos or drive at us as we walk across a zebra crossing, there are three things. Civility is lacking. The literal blasé murderous way is unwelcome. And while they might have found a woman who thinks it is cool to be on the end of them our view is that in a purely metaphorical sense they can take ours up the arse. These "personalities" which are increasing in number and as many are female as they are male because once they have "enjoyed" the experience they become more real and take it out on the general public are so ugly, two-faced and downright brattish they could be the mind of Greta Thunberg. I see she is travelling by road to Chile and all her team are flying back.
The Supreme Court is not part of the constitution, It is a Blairite fantasy thing that was introduced so that power could be given to a woman called Queen Gina - who the f**k is she? - and an old bint who has a fetish for having a spider crawling over her breast. As Dr David Starkey, gay and very impressive,, rightly says, the only precedent cited is 1611 and the experts their lordships don't understand it. They have just dragged it out of a dictionary assuming they know and more specifically believing they will hoodwink the public. They had to turn to that as there is no other legal precedent. And what that says is that you can't prorogue to commit a crime. Well,, their judgement was that the proroguing was unlawful though not illegal so it is about whether they consider proroguing is a borderline crime or not. But that is not at all the same as proroguing to commit a crime. In the 1611 judgement, there was no crime in the proroguing itself so the distinction is totally bogus. Given this, as someone who tentatively voted remain I really will observe with fascination if Brexit isn't delivered how this country will be burnt to cinders from top to bottom for no other reason than it will have asked for it. Obviously it will be sad but if the liberal middle classes have all their assets flamed then as someone with little money I am prepared for mine to be flamed too. On the other side of the coin I really hope that if and when it happens the public including me will be protected so far as possible, not that the services we have will be in any position to cope.
Consequently. I also have an FOI enquiry outstanding - genuine - to the Government (the Military Police actually who I totally admire and they have my 100% backing : they know that well and for all of my eccentricity I mean well for all of us which is why they like me) on what its preparations are for a Lib Dem Government and an ensuing civil war. What are they doing to ensure the maintaining of safety for the public in that event as Brexiteers in the best of democratic spirits go on the rampage? Will we be protected by tanks? Will we be protected by 1970s Northern Ireland curfews? And on the latter, will that mean a limit on freedom of movement within this country for all of our protection so that no one can even travel from Doncaster to Rotherham after 6pm and if so will that last several years? I have especially cited two events in recent history. One was the Miners Strike of the early 1980s which anyone under 40 odd wouldn't recall. There we had rightly or wrongly the state against the people and it was bloody and for a while it looked like the state was losing. What I have asked is if the situation that would arise under the Lib Dems would be worse by 10, 100 or 1000 times.
And then the late 1940s which is obviously way before my time but I know things. Forget the distance of the English Civil War. The panic inside Whitehall was immense then though covered up. The prospect of mass starvation was at the root of it which could easily re-occur if masses turned out on the reneging to block our ports and I think they will do. I am far from convinced that the mind of Jo Swinson has ever totally emerged from her self-confessed criminal dope smoking period so that it has even begun to consider such things and regained what we used to know as liberal balance. She might seem to many so aggressively unreal in her policy stance and aloof. Anyhow "this is the BBC". That at the time just about kept people in order. Oh it is all fine then when it wasn't. Note the BBC hasn't the same influence today. Secretly Maynard Keynes was sent off to the US cap in hand with a message. If you don't give us a loan, our country will be in flames because of revolution...
The poor man. A decent Social Democrat. Economically I have always been an old style Social Democrat or One Nation Tory, The two were so close in the 1960s when I was in my pram as to make little difference. Anyhow, he was unwell. The yanks said to him "sod off" and that killed him. So then Churchill steps in even though it is an Attlee government. A bit like having a Corbyn government when it is in such difficulty that it has to say to Boris "you were born in New York and Trump likes you, you save us". So yeah Churchill went and said "oh hey I am close in my connections with America" and they said "oh well as it's you we'll do it but at a big price".
Otherwise, there would have been no Queen. No army, No home ownership. No welfare state. No nothing. We would have been a banana state. Dereliction everywhere. Vote the Lib Dems in and we will really get it. They will have to engage the army which will be half hearted as its loyalties will be divided and they might well win the day temporarily but about 90% of people will look at liberalism and think "my god". It's destroyed in it's heavy handed way everything. It's been fascist. And the entire brand will never ever again see the light of day. It will open the way to true fascism and under that regime there will be no minority rights. In fact, very sadly, most minorities will go to the guillotine. Britain First is indeed waiting in the wings when it turns out that the Brexit Party has no policies other than on Brexit but I doubt we shall see anything as moderate as their extreme. It will be more extreme and ten years down the line it will make Marine Le Pen look in comparison like Mother Theresa.
So I'm quite clear on this. Brexit has to be delivered to save blacks and gays having their heads sliced off and going into gas chambers etc within the next five years. I don't want to see that. It would pain me immensely. I might well go with them. I am a single man who people misinterpret but hey ho. Fine if fair play wins out. While rules are rules, you can't just muck people around like this. Cameron - the worst PM in my lifetime and that really takes some doing following Blair could have avoided all of this by making the referendum binding. That he didn't shows precisely which way the establishment would have the public. By the goolies. As someone who is deeply law abiding, my instinct is that most MPs are on illegal drugs. That is why they were unwilling and unable to regulate drug taking in the financial sphere which caused the economic crash which in turn subsequently killed thousands. And that is why too one of my other recent initiatives has been to ask my MP to introduce a bill which brings forward regular testing of MPs for illegal drug taking. I explained to him that Parliament couldn't regulate finance if it was also under the criminal influence.
He's a pretty good bloke actually which is unfortunate as most are nasty and I would like to have a nasty one to continually put on the spot and embarrass. But I have felt it necessary to advise him that if and when chaos has to come and there is widespread social breakdown for no reason other than the establishment's own fault, people won't know quite what they want. They will feel gutted and everything will be immensely disturbing as deep down they - we - I - know that really we like the system we have had. We don't ideally want it to burn. We just want it to work with reason, And if it starts to burn through lack of reason what I said to him is that what will emerge is direct democracy. It won't be the end of the world. We might even have a royal family and an army, But Parliament will be finished.
Civil servants will send out by text every week policy questions and people will answer those X-factor or fantasy football style and then the administrators will just get on with it as told. No ifs. No buts, On everything. Technologically its time has almost come anyway. So the fact that politicians and the judiciary are destroying themselves and us with it as they lead us towards civil war is really just a symptom that their own time is up. And if 52% of the people text that they want hanging brought back and remainers turn out to be their principal priority for the rope, so be it. The people must have their way. That is democracy. The way things are now. I am sure there is a company or two who could make a few bob selling tickets to spectators. It would be less ghoulish than much of what they already do. We'd get a bit of tax from it to pay for social care. It isn't even as if it is a difficult principle, is it. If 52% decided that there should be a law which requires every Brexiteer to dress as a rhino on Wednesdays and on the hour every hour to utter the word "platypus" every Brexiteer must do it. It's precisely the same thing.
On dogs, yes I love dogs. Whatever they do, they are not malevolent, even if it is mauling someone to death. They are sweethearts and so apolitical. Next time I'm not coming back human but for now that is how I have to be, I voted Social Democrat or Liberal/Liberal Democrat from 1981 to 2005 so no one can get me on accusations of long term extremism. I will leave that to so-called modern liberals. I have also voted Green. I am not advocating for anyone these days. I think they are all utterly despicable and I will probably abstain. My only substantive observation is that those who are liberally inclined should not vote Lib Dem as the backlash will be so considerable that they will have smacked themselves in their own mouths and that would be an awful shame, wouldn't it., Especially when masses are slaughtered. 'Ow's me Millwall lads doin' - the club is f**kin brilliant now with multi-racials and autism. We got Leeds next week or the one after. If it all goes off, and I hope not, maybe a liberal labourite could come down and swing the mace at everyone, unifying ten thousand from both sides and ensuring crowd safety? After all, such types claim to want to be like the Common People. Pulp..
Quote: Rood Eye @ 25th September 2019, 6:23 PMWith Boris back home at Number 10, the arguments about Brexit go on . . . and on.
There are some very clever and well-informed people on both sides of the argument but I'm not sure how many of those people there are on each side.
What I do know is that the British public (on average) know and understand as much about Brexit as animals know and understand about the best way to run a zoo, and as much as primary schoolchildren know and understand about complex educational matters.
The fact of the matter is that the average person in Britain knows and understands absolutely bugger all about Brexit and, accordingly, should never in a million years have been allowed to vote on the matter.
Boris's proroguing of Parliament has been deemed meaningless by the Supreme Court but it isn't nearly as meaningless as the result of the Brexit referendum.
As any mathematician will tell you, if you toss a coin in the air 34 million times, you're going to get roughly 50% heads and 50% tails.
Similarly, if you ask 34 million people a question that almost none of them understand and ask them to answer either "A" or "B", you're going to get roughly 50% "A's" and 50% "B's" - and that's exactly what happened.
So why was the ballot paper in English or indeed in any language that Earth people understand? They could have printed it in Klingon and it wouldn't have affected the result!
The entire affair was a joke from the start: we should wind the clocks back and just forget it ever happened.
My personal view is that I am against referenda altogether.
Johnson dismisses as 'Humbug' friends of Jo Cox's pleas to tone down Language, the very language that is believed to have encouraged Jo's murder. All Bojo does is hurl insults at people, and try and set them against each other. The EU are laughing at his approach even the Daily Mail said he uses school boy debating tactics and they want to be on his side. Surely its time for Ken Clarke or just about anyone else ?
Quote: Firkin @ 26th September 2019, 8:11 AMSurely its time for Ken Clarke or just about anyone else ?
The Army
I don't get involved in politics, treating all the self-serving scum that they are with utter contempt and am absolutely disgusted by the howling apoplectic rants of some of them I happened to catch a glimpse of this morning.
Utter disgrace. And this shit is running the country, and why I haven't voted for over 40 years. God help us all.
Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 26th September 2019, 9:31 AMtreating all the self-serving scum that they are with utter contempt and am absolutely disgusted by the howling apoplectic rants of some of them I happened to catch a glimpse of this morning.
Utter disgrace.
Enough already about BCG members!
Quote: chipolata @ 26th September 2019, 9:34 AMEnough already about BCG members!
Quote: chipolata @ 26th September 2019, 9:34 AMEnough already about BCG members!
Yo ist goinz downunt in zee booken - vhat ist unt nammen? 