Quote: Frankie Mildly Perturbed @ 16th February 2018, 4:12 AMNo amount of legislation will ever stop humans killing each other.
Not least when that hallowed legislation enshrines your right to purchase guns and ammunition. God bless America and let's all pray for Trump to make things great again, lest crooked Hillary and her ilk try to take away our fun guns. Carry on killing.
Quote: Kenneth @ 16th February 2018, 4:37 AMNot least when that hallowed legislation enshrines your right to purchase guns and ammunition. God bless America and let's all pray for Trump to make things great again, lest crooked Hillary and her ilk try to take away our fun guns. Carry on killing.
Don't bring politics into it or you'll be shot!
Look out world, the UK has a bronze medal - we're on our way. 
Quote: Kenneth @ 16th February 2018, 3:26 AMHow many guns does Dabutt have?
And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? You and I have gone on the exact same number of shooting sprees.
Quote: Kenneth @ 16th February 2018, 3:26 AMCarry on killing, America.
You've said that so many times that I'm beginning to think you actually enjoy it.
Quote: Kenneth @ 16th February 2018, 3:26 AMGuns are fun.
Sport shooting is indeed quite fun. Millions of people just watched the coverage at the Winter Olympics.
Quote: Kenneth @ 16th February 2018, 3:26 AMyou're too dumb.
I'm quite intelligent. I've scored in the 98th or 99th percentile in every IQ test I've ever taken, and there have been plenty.
Quote: Frankie Mildly Perturbed @ 16th February 2018, 4:12 AMNo amount of legislation will ever stop humans killing each other.
Whether it would help or not, this is the issue, and I believe it would help.
Surely it is worth a try.
We have page after page after page of gun laws on the books, including hundreds of new laws intended to stop gun crime. The sad truth is that they have failed to do so. For some strange reason, criminals who murder people with guns don't seem to care about gun laws. They're facing the ultimate punishment - the death penalty - for murdering someone, so if that doesn't faze them, a much lesser punishment for breaking a new gun law certainly won't.
I've posted this many times in the past, but here it comes again:
When President Clinton was considering tackling gun control early in his first term, President Carter's press secretary, Jody Powell, sent him this memo. It's a rare example of an influential Democrat admitting the truth about gun control laws.
"As much as I hate to say it, the NRA is effective primarily because it is largely right when it claims that most gun control laws inconvenience and threaten the law-abiding while having little or no impact on violent crime or criminals. I support registration in principle, but two questions need to be asked. Are the people causing the problem going to comply voluntarily? If not, do you have a way to effectively enforce compliance?"
Quote: Frankie Mildly Perturbed @ 16th February 2018, 4:12 AMBut if he's not a cop then I don't think he or any other non-cops should be carrying in a public place
Our laws say differently. I'm licensed to carry a concealed handgun, but I rarely do. My state keeps meticulous records on the crimes committed by citizens licensed to carry and the results are clear: they commit crimes at a rate of 1/10 of the population as a whole.
Quote: Frankie Mildly Perturbed @ 16th February 2018, 4:12 AMPenalty for illegally carrying?
The laws are already on the books. In my state, penalties range up to 10 years in prison, with even greater sentences if the person was carrying while committing a crime. These laws keep honest people from carrying when/where they shouldn't, but the bad guys just ignore them.
It actually makes no difference how many guns Da Butt has. We're all pretty sure he won't turn them on innocents. The main threat is he's so effing stupid enough to support all the nutters who do.
Quote: DaButt @ 16th February 2018, 11:57 AMWe have page after page after page of gun laws on the books, including hundreds of new laws intended to stop gun crime. The sad truth is that they have failed to do so. For some strange reason, criminals who murder people with guns don't seem to care about gun laws. They're facing the ultimate punishment - the death penalty - for murdering someone, so if that doesn't faze them, a much lesser punishment for breaking a new gun law certainly won't.
I've posted this many times in the past, but here it comes again:
Our laws say differently. I'm licensed to carry a concealed handgun, but I rarely do. My state keeps meticulous records on the crimes committed by citizens licensed to carry and the results are clear: they commit crimes at a rate of 1/10 of the population as a whole.
The laws are already on the books. In my state, penalties range up to 10 years in prison, with even greater sentences if the person was carrying while committing a crime. These laws keep honest people from carrying when/where they shouldn't, but the bad guys just ignore them.
I take your points on board.
The thing that concerns me, and also you by the sound of it, is that your laws aren't working well enough. Are they the right laws then and if they are, are they enforced well enough? That doesn't just apply to gun law.
How many bad guys (let's say, murders) are you actually executing? Enough, or not enough?
(It's not much of a deterrent if you don't follow through!)
How many known bad guys/repeat offenders are you letting out of jail? The right number, or too many?
How many prisoners does your jail system allow to sell/take illegal drugs, abuse other inmates, abuse/injure prison officers? The right number, or too many?
How many known criminals in your state who when found carrying when/where they shouldn't are given sentences? The right number, what number would that be as a percentage of the known cases? Were those sentences given actually strict enough?
Do you need some new, better gun control laws, or just more strict enforcement of the existing laws - or do you just indeed give up trying?
Quote: Briosaid @ 16th February 2018, 8:33 PMIt actually makes no difference how many guns Da Butt has. We're all pretty sure he won't turn them on innocents. The main threat is he's so effing stupid enough to support all the nutters who do.
I've never done any such thing.
Quote: Frankie Mildly Perturbed @ 17th February 2018, 7:05 AMThe thing that concerns me, and also you by the sound of it, is that your laws aren't working well enough. Are they the right laws then and if they are, are they enforced well enough? That doesn't just apply to gun law.
We have by far the largest prison population in the world, with more than 2 million people behind bars. Americans don't seem to be as concerned about that figure as the rest of the world is. "Lock 'em up" is how most people feel, especially if the crimes were violent or predatory in nature. We keep toughening our laws and building more prisons and they keep filling up. It should be noted that while spree shootings get all of the press, they make up a small percentage of our murders. We typically have about 15,000 murders per year (11,000 by firearm) but spree shootings and the evil "assault" rifle only account for 250-350 deaths per year: about 2% of the total. By far, the greatest contributor to our murder rate is the individual street murder committed with a handgun.
Quote: Frankie Mildly Perturbed @ 17th February 2018, 7:05 AMHow many bad guys (let's say, murders) are you actually executing? Enough, or not enough?
(It's not much of a deterrent if you don't follow through!)
It varies by state. Since being reinstated 40 years ago, we've executed about 1500 people. Last year 23 were put to death. Personally, I'm against capital punishment except for extreme cases and treason/spying.
Quote: Frankie Mildly Perturbed @ 17th February 2018, 7:05 AMHow many known bad guys/repeat offenders are you letting out of jail? The right number, or too many?
I'd say it's the right number, since they've served their sentences as ordered.
Quote: Frankie Mildly Perturbed @ 17th February 2018, 7:05 AMHow many prisoners does your jail system allow to sell/take illegal drugs, abuse other inmates, abuse/injure prison officers? The right number, or too many?
Drugs are forbidden, but available in some cases. Abuse is almost impossible to stop, unless everyone is in solitary confinement.
Quote: Frankie Mildly Perturbed @ 17th February 2018, 7:05 AMHow many known criminals in your state who when found carrying when/where they shouldn't are given sentences? The right number, what number would that be as a percentage of the known cases? Were those sentences given actually strict enough?
Federal law requires lengthy 5-, 7-, 10-, and 30-year mandatory minimum sentences for possessing, brandishing, or discharging a gun in the course of a drug trafficking crime or a crime of violence (18 U.S.C. § 924(c)). There are also mandatory minimum sentences of 25 years for each subsequent conviction. The law requires that these mandatory prison terms be served back-to-back (i.e., consecutively, not concurrently) with each other and with any other punishment the person receives for the underlying offense.
The Armed Career Criminal Act (ACCA, 18 U.S.C. § 924(e)) is another federal gun law that requires a 15-year mandatory minimum sentence for anyone who possesses a gun or ammunition and also has three prior convictions for drug trafficking or violent felonies. The mandatory minimum applies even if the prior convictions are very old, nonviolent, minor, resulted from a drug addiction, or resulted in no prison time.
Quote: Frankie Mildly Perturbed @ 17th February 2018, 7:05 AMDo you need some new, better gun control laws, or just more strict enforcement of the existing laws - or do you just indeed give up trying?
Our gun laws are already very tough, although no reasonable gun owner would balk at making them even stricter, as far as street crime goes. Our best hope is to turn kids away from drugs, gangs and street crime. The fly in the ointment is that there is a strong racial (and therefore political) element to it all. It would be nice if the hip-hop artists and athletes who kids look up to would condemn the gangster lifestyle instead of glorifying it. I had hoped that our African American president would make it happen, but he didn't.
Here's a great chart which illustrates our prison population and what they were charged with:
Mmmmmm Prison Pie
It seems Trump has switched sides on the US gun issue:
I'm not sure I believe him though -- do you?
Quote: Briosaid @ 9th February 2018, 8:52 PMSo - can anybody tell me what they think the advantages of Brexit are (apart from the mad belief that Britain controls the universe and that all non-white people must be the spawn of satan)?
No - just the Scotch - but we can't get rid of them however hard we try.
You haven't tried hard enough!
Quote: DaButt @ 16th February 2018, 11:38 AMI'm quite intelligent. I've scored in the 98th or 99th percentile in every IQ test I've ever taken, and there have been plenty.
Now that you've said it for the umteenth time I finally believe it. 
Quote: Davida @ 6th March 2018, 8:41 PMNow that you've said it for the umteenth time I finally believe it.
I only bring it up when an argumentative poster implies (or states directly) that I'm stupid. I even posted photographic evidence of a test score, so hopefully people will stop bringing up the subject. 