I read the news today oh boy! Page 1835

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Paul Wimsett

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 9:12am
  • Folkestone, United Kingdom
  • 3,392 posts

Well you could have said that the Cold War was WWIII, Sarc. More specifically the Cuban Missile Crisis. It's not an absolute term, there were world wars before WWI.

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Hercules Grytpype Thynne

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 9:20am
  • England
  • 17,484 posts
Quote: keewik @ 18th July 2016, 8:48 PM BST

And didn't the British spread themselves throughout the world? Really disappointed that you hold this attitude, Herc.

Sorry keewik, it comes with the territory of baby boomer old fartery.

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keewik

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 9:56am
  • 6,364 posts
Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 19th July 2016, 9:20 AM BST

Sorry keewik, it comes with the territory of baby boomer old fartery.

It doesn't have to - I seem to recall I'm a few months older than you (?a year and a few months?)

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Kenneth

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 9:57am
  • Australia
  • 5,426 posts
Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 19th July 2016, 9:20 AM BST

Sorry keewik, it comes with the territory of baby boomer old fartery.

Many of the early baby-boomers grew up to become hippies, keen on peace and love, spawning a generation accustomed to multiculturalism. All good and well, until some extremist Muslims decided that the rest of the planet should follow Islamic law. When the current generation has become too polite and too politically correct to say: "All religions are nonsense and yours is the worst because extremists are using it as justification for murder and treating women like shit."
In the past (say from 1955 to 2005), we had a handful of newspapers and TV stations to provide our news and shape mainstream opinions, but the advent of social media over the past decade means that we can abandon the big news outlets and instead curate our media diet to those who share our values and our prejudices. Hence the rise of Trump, Brexit, Westerners joining ISIS, and nudist hamster colonies.

So it's understandable that some older baby-boomers should now say: "Shit, importing Islam and building mosques was a dumb idea." Not least because future generations won't be shaped by a mainstream culture but can instead follow whatever narrow niche suggested by their family or local community or online friends.

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Sarc

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 10:14am
  • England
  • 423 posts
Quote: Paul Wimsett @ 19th July 2016, 9:12 AM BST

Well you could have said that the Cold War was WWIII, Sarc. More specifically the Cuban Missile Crisis. It's not an absolute term, there were world wars before WWI.

That's very true, I didn't even think about that.
Okay so maybe not WWIII but the moral decency part still stands I think but then again in hindsight that could well be attached to anything.

F**k it, I'm off to live under a rock.

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Frankie Mildly Perturbed

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 10:17am [Edited]
  • London, United Kingdom
  • 5,496 posts

Obviously all Muslims aren't terrorists but a small minority are. If the terrorists that are currently perpetrating the atrocities belonged to an extreme Christian sect then the broader Christian faith would come under criticism, be asked to explain, expected to provide intelligence, etc.

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Lazzard

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 10:38am
  • Ludlow, England
  • 4,774 posts
Quote: Frankie Rage @ 19th July 2016, 10:17 AM BST

If the terrorists that are currently perpetrating the atrocities belonged to an extreme Christian sect then the broader Christian faith would come under criticism, be asked to explain, expected to provide intelligence, etc.

Disagree.
We don't seem to have a problem separating The Westfield Baptist Church from those nice people down the road and their church fete.
I think it's probably racism.

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Kenneth

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 10:47am [Edited]
  • Australia
  • 5,426 posts
Quote: Lazzard @ 19th July 2016, 10:38 AM BST

Disagree.
We don't seem to have a problem separating The Westfield Baptist Church from those nice people down the road and their church fete.
I think it's probably racism.

Aye. But no church is going to ban booze (OK, apart from the Mormons, Methodists, Baptists et al) or order girls to start wearing Casper costumes so they don't incite the lust of randy men.

Despising a religion is not the same as racism. Easy to love all races, but not easy to tolerate the imposition of bigoted religious values.

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Frankie Mildly Perturbed

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 10:51am [Edited]
  • London, United Kingdom
  • 5,496 posts
Quote: Lazzard @ 19th July 2016, 10:38 AM BST

Disagree.
We don't seem to have a problem separating The Westfield Baptist Church from those nice people down the road and their church fete.
I think it's probably racism.

If a small number of clergy are guilty of molesting children then the broader church comes under criticism, is asked to explain, expected to provide intelligence, etc.

Quite often the view is held that the church aren't doing enough to try to prevent it before it happens or investigate it when it does..

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Hercules Grytpype Thynne

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 12:05pm
  • England
  • 17,484 posts
Quote: keewik @ 19th July 2016, 9:56 AM BST

It doesn't have to - I seem to recall I'm a few months older than you (?a year and a few months?)

Yes, so it can only be what has happened to both of us in the last half century or so. I try to understand and be tolerant, but something inside me fears the worse - I am definitely a half empty man.

Quote: Kenneth @ 19th July 2016, 9:57 AM BST

So it's understandable that some older baby-boomers should now say: "Shit, importing Islam and building mosques was a dumb idea." Not least because future generations won't be shaped by a mainstream culture but can instead follow whatever narrow niche suggested by their family or local community or online friends.

Yes.

Quote: Frankie Rage @ 19th July 2016, 10:17 AM BST

Obviously all Muslims aren't terrorists but a small minority are. If the terrorists that are currently perpetrating the atrocities belonged to an extreme Christian sect then the broader Christian faith would come under criticism, be asked to explain, expected to provide intelligence, etc.

Do you think these moderate Muslims who come forward and disassociate themselves with the terrorism, or ones that keep in the background do actually supply intelligence?
I just wondered as sometimes our security services do seem to be one step ahead and it would be comforting to know that there are Muslims on our side.

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Nick Nockerty

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 12:21pm [Edited]
  • Greater Manchester, England
  • 656 posts
Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 19th July 2016, 12:05 PM BST

I just wondered as sometimes our security services do seem to be one step ahead and it would be comforting to know that there are Muslims on our side.

Here's some comforting evidence Muslims are on our side:

https://www.facebook.com/Muslims-Against-ISIS-1444672609121662/ http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/muslims-marched-through-london-show-6981086 https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-c8b1-The-British-Muslim-women-making-a-stand-against-Isis#.V44MYKIqSUg

More Muslims have died in the fight against ISIS than Christians, to date.

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Frankie Mildly Perturbed

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 12:39pm
  • London, United Kingdom
  • 5,496 posts
Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 19th July 2016, 12:05 PM BST

Do you think these moderate Muslims who come forward and disassociate themselves with the terrorism, or ones that keep in the background do actually supply intelligence?
I just wondered as sometimes our security services do seem to be one step ahead and it would be comforting to know that there are Muslims on our side.

It would not seem unreasonable that we expect that they should and I would expect that some do. It would seem reasonable that most Muslims just want to get on with their lives and prosper the same as the rest of us.

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Lazzard

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 3:58pm
  • Ludlow, England
  • 4,774 posts
Quote: Frankie Rage @ 19th July 2016, 10:51 AM BST

If a small number of clergy are guilty of molesting children then the broader church comes under criticism, is asked to explain, expected to provide intelligence, etc.

But it's the organisers of that religion that fall under suspicion - those that allowed these things to go on.
Even the most ardent protestant wouldn't consider every Catholic guilty or that child molesting is a tenant of their faith.
But this is what Moslems are on the receiving end of, time and time again.

And don't get me wrong - I believe all religion to be bunkum, man-made engines of power to control the masses. But no one is worse than another.

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Alfred J Kipper

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 5:02pm
  • Aldershot, England
  • 6,263 posts

I don't see the connection, Adolf had no plans of persecution against muslims Keewik. Scotland is thought to be in danger of becoming the next France or Belgium and is high up on Europe's security radar. Glasgow is becoming a hotbed of Islamism and far right wing sunni muslim separatism like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. These are not the friendly inclusive types your friend is, they are the ones promoting and carrying out religious based murders and hatred.

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sootyj

  • Tuesday 19th July 2016, 5:41pm
  • England
  • 51,287 posts
Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 19th July 2016, 12:05 PM BST

Do you think these moderate Muslims who come forward and disassociate themselves with the terrorism, or ones that keep in the background do actually supply intelligence?
I just wondered as sometimes our security services do seem to be one step ahead and it would be comforting to know that there are Muslims on our side.

By and large think about when was the last large, well organised terrorist attack in the UK?

Years ago now I suspect that's mostly due to our nosy security services reading emails and integrated Muslims dobbing nutters in.

You can't do much about the lone wolves. But the large scale loons, last lot I think was that bunch trying to get bombs in mineral water bottles onto planes.