Quote: Nogget @ 11th June 2014, 1:30 PM BST

They probably started at 14, retired at 63-65, and lived till 80.

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According to you, they only live for 15 years on benefits - so why are they eating so much of the welfare pot?

The latest figures put the number of people over the age of 65 in the UK at roughly 10 million - so every time they get a hand out, such as a £200 winter fuel allowance, that's a shit load of money.

2 million unemployed versus 10 million retired and rising. God knows how many old people will make up the population in 20 years.

What a tragedy it is that so many people are living longer.

Quote: Badge @ 11th June 2014, 4:48 PM BST

What a tragedy it is that so many people are living longer.

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Hey both the Daily Mail and the Tories have made it perfectly normal to demonise huge groups of people who receive state hand outs. I'm just jumping on the bandwagon by unfairly criticising a significant proportion of the population based on their tax contributions.

Perhaps we should sanction old people as a way to get them off pension benefit?

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 11th June 2014, 4:44 PM BST

According to you,

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I'm willing to be corrected. My figures are based on the school leaving age of a current octogenarian, their retirement age, and their life expectancy; what are yours based on?

Quote: Nogget @ 11th June 2014, 5:28 PM BST

I'm willing to be corrected. My figures are based on the school leaving age of a current octogenarian, their retirement age, and their life expectancy; what are yours based on?

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Being RC, I expect they are based on imagination and gut feeling.

A bit like the statistics in this video: http://www.youtube.com/embed/6-3X5hIFXYU

Quote: Nogget @ 11th June 2014, 5:28 PM BST

I'm willing to be corrected. My figures are based on the school leaving age of a current octogenarian, their retirement age, and their life expectancy; what are yours based on?

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The 10 million figure is from the Government. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/number-of-people-aged-65-and-older-passes-10-million-for-first-time-with-over85s-the-fastest-growing-section-of-society-8422879.html

I just like the way we've arranged our little theatre of hate depending on retirement age, so if someone works for 25 years, paying tax the whole time and is laid off and can't find another job, they are a total scrounger, scum of the Earth and should be made to pick up litter in parks.

But if they retired after working for 25 years, they are suddenly venerated, lovable, productive members of society who've paid their dues and are akin to Jesus in thought and deed.

Our prejudices are based on a number, an arbitrary line in the sand, but it's enough for Daily Mail readers (and others who should know better) to pour scorn and condemnation.

Who are these people who manage to retire after 25 years?

Starting work (late) at 20 that means retiring at 45 ?? I don't recall any such cases. And they don't get OAP pension until 65 so that's (by your reckoning) 20 years of living on their own savings.

Your message doesn't make sense.

Don't Police or Firemen retire at that kind of age?

They do in Turkey though.

Quote: billwill @ 11th June 2014, 7:05 PM BST

Who are these people who manage to retire after 25 years?

Starting work (late) at 20 that means retiring at 45 ?? I don't recall any such cases. And they don't get OAP pension until 65 so that's (by your reckoning) 20 years of living on their own savings.

Your message doesn't make sense.

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https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibility

It is possible to retire after 25 years, though ideally 30 years will get you a basic state pension of £113 per week. But, for example, as a woman, you could have worked for 5 years, got married, had kids and then returned to the workforce later on, worked from 35 to 60 and then retired.

I'm not sure what the rules and regulations are with regards to state pension and personal savings or private pension plans. Eg. Could you own several properties and have a private pension and other investments meaning you're bring in over £60k and can still claim state pension? And free travel? And free TV license? And £200 winter fuel allowance?

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 11th June 2014, 8:33 PM BST

Eg. Could you own several properties and have a private pension and other investments meaning you're bring in over £60k and can still claim state pension? And free travel? And free TV license? And £200 winter fuel allowance?

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None of those are means tested so yes.

A London freedom pass is equivalent to approximately £3500 a year per pensioner.

That's approx £60 a week, unemployment or incapacity benefit is about £70 a week.

Quote: Oldrocker @ 11th June 2014, 9:18 PM BST

None of those are means tested so yes.

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Interesting.

Quote: sootyj @ 11th June 2014, 9:23 PM BST

A London freedom pass is equivalent to approximately £3500 a year per pensioner.

That's approx £60 a week, unemployment or incapacity benefit is about £70 a week.

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The jobless are means tested.

The problem with means testing is it's so inefficent and expensive. People who need miss out, people who play the system fill their boots and the whole assessing process costs something insane like a fiver to give a £1.

If people didn't claim what they didn't need....

But millionare PM Cameron and well paid PM Gordon Brown both claimed DLA for their kids.

Great f**king example guys.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 11th June 2014, 9:51 PM BST

The jobless are means tested.

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Which makes it doubley unfair, you paid your taxes you lost your job now spend your severance till you're sufficently poor then we'll give you a handout.
(£6000 is savings allowed I think)

Following the credit crunch thousands of middle class people who lost their jobs who'd paid millions in taxes (if not billions) didn't claim JSA. The system was to petty, complex, unhelpful and all around shit. And the DSS was delighted to save that money.

Where as if you managed to get to 65 without dying, here's thousands in none means tested goodies.

So hey you crazy kids, vote!

Quote: sootyj @ 11th June 2014, 9:56 PM BST

Which makes it doubley unfair, you paid your taxes you lost your job now spend your severance till you're sufficently poor then we'll give you a handout.
(£6000 is savings allowed I think)

Where as if you managed to get to 65 without dying, here's thousands in none means tested goodies.

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And that's what I was getting at and the two thirds of welfare budget spend. However, I wanted to attack the elderly purely because I felt entitled to, much in the same way others attack the unemployed.

It's never nice when a significant group of people are criticised through no fault of their own.

Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 11th June 2014, 10:01 PM BST

It's never nice when a significant group of people are criticised through no fault of their own.

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I can't help being old.