Quote: Matthew Stott @ 12th May 2014, 9:53 PM BSTDictatorship? A little over the top. A smidge.
Not really. See my list of American freedoms. We don't have them here because the British embrace tyranny so easily. They like being told what to do by a small, ruling, classist, elite - they know their place.
Or our more mature parliament excels at consensus politics and our politicians reflect the peoples wishes.
Quote: Jennie @ 12th May 2014, 9:58 PM BSTbut surely that is better than dividing smokers and non-smokers into separate camps?
Wow, that is some weird analogy you've got going there - excuse me if I'm wrong, but the smoking ban in pubs did just that.
When the ban was first introduced, an army of non-smokers all collectively sighed 'at last, now we can go to the pub' - but they didn't, the liars.
Such is the ideology and the desire for British people to be petty and obnoxious, lobbyists want to ban e-cigs and claim young people take up smoke because of the packaging - yeah, okay.
If just one in five pubs could be a smoking pub, you'd soon see a massive influx of drinkers returning to hostelries. Obviously, they'd go to the smoking pubs, which would be full of the coolest people, so non-smokers would go there to, just to complain.
You know, I volunteer for a charity that sends volunteer lawyers over the US. The human rights there are so bad we actually get people to work there, for six months, for free, to try and install a bit of sanity.
I could have worked for a charity doing the same thing in East Africa, but I decided things were at least as bad in the states. I wouldn't say worse. At least as bad.
Quote: sootyj @ 12th May 2014, 10:01 PM BSTOr our more mature parliament excels at consensus politics and our politicians reflect the peoples wishes.
No, they reflect the media and big businesses' wishes. There are those who say UKIP run on a platform or fear, unlike all of those politicians who predict economic Armageddon if we were to leave the EU.
e.g. - they think this shit is OK in the States.
Quote: Jennie @ 12th May 2014, 10:04 PM BSTThe human rights there are so bad we actually get people to work there, for six months, for free, to try and install a bit of sanity.
Really? I've looked through the Constitution and State and Federal laws. Which human rights are they infringing in particular?
Quote: Jennie @ 12th May 2014, 10:07 PM BSTe.g. - they think this shit is OK in the States.
Inmates are not forced to take part, it's purely down to individual choice and the rewards for participation. One day being chased by a bull in US prison or several years working in a call centre in a British prison?
The right to fair trial takes a massive battering. Say five men commit an armed robbery of a bank. Only one person has a gun. In the UK, they would all be tried together. The prosecution would say "we say Mr X was the man with the gun".
In Louisiana, they have five separate trials for each defendant. So at each trial, the prosecution can say "we say Mr X was the man with the gun" for each different defendant. That is f**ked up.
In Indiana, four boys broke into a house. The householder had a gun. He shot one of the boys dead. The other three are convicted of their friend's murder. Murder?
And will they ever get out? Will they heck. 40 - 50 year sentences a piece. Fortunately, the "murdered" their friend at 16, so I suppose they have a shot at their old age.
Right to be free from torture - we will not extradite someone to the States who is at risk of the death penalty? Why? Because studies show that prison conditions for death row inmates are so bad as to constitute inhumane treatment.
The US incarcerate more of their citizens than any other Western country. Their crime rates are still sky high. Judge a society by how it treats the lowest.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 12th May 2014, 10:06 PM BSTNo, they reflect the media and big businesses' wishes. There are those who say UKIP run on a platform or fear, unlike all of those politicians who predict economic Armageddon if we were to leave the EU.
So big business doesn't run US politics really, how did you actually type that.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 12th May 2014, 10:09 PM BSTInmates are not forced to take part, it's purely down to individual choice and the rewards for participation. One day being chased by a bull in US prison or several years working in a call centre in a British prison?
Absolutely, the inmates take part because they love it. They told my friend when she was over there that "it's good to see some fresh air for an hour or so". It is f**ked.
Even if they loved every second of having their backs broken (as frequently happens) how can a modern, civilised society sanction such a contest? It is humiliating - they have to just sit there, can't fight back. They get seriously injured. This is sport.
Quote: Jennie @ 12th May 2014, 10:07 PM BSTe.g. - they think this shit is OK in the States.
Working in a Rodeo is a job, it's no odder than most and I suspect one of the few that would likely lead to work outside of prison.
In 2005, the Supreme Court finally recognised that the death penalty for juveniles was a bit off and suddenly declared it "unconstitutional".
Not to worry, we'll just convert all their sentences to life without parole instead. Let them rot.
Obviously the constitution, which is like a religious text, is considered both utterly infallible and yet is regularly reinterpreted to suit the needs of the day.
Modern democracies, like the UK, have constitutions that evolve to meet the challenges of social change. Not in the US. Dogma is the way.
Quote: sootyj @ 12th May 2014, 10:19 PM BSTWorking in a Rodeo is a job, it's no odder than most and I suspect one of the few that would likely lead to work outside of prison.
Those prisoners aren't getting out. It's the lifers who do it.
Also in normal rodeo, you are allowed to get out of the way. I admit I'm not an avid watcher, but I don't think they set up some tea party scenario so that you can sit and drink tea whilst waiting for paraplegia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u143n4MnK8o
Prisoner pinball. How sweet. And not at all sick and twisted.
Quote: Jennie @ 12th May 2014, 10:15 PM BSTIn Indiana, four boys broke into a house. The householder had a gun. He shot one of the boys dead. The other three are convicted of their friend's murder. Murder?
The US incarcerate more of their citizens than any other Western country. Their crime rates are still sky high. Judge a society by how it treats the lowest.
I can name any number of messed up legal judgements in the UK. The difference being is that the householder defending his property from criminals would be put in jail in the UK. That's how screwed up this country has become.
High crime rates are not a result of the justice system. High crime rates are to do with poverty and because the US has been a victim of mass immigration - something like 70 million poor Mexicans crossing the border in the last few decades, gangs, drugs and crime have followed.
As much as I'd like to believe in the fantasy that everyone on Death Row in America is an innocent victim fitted up by the state, that is simply not true.
Quote: Jennie @ 12th May 2014, 10:30 PM BSThttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u143n4MnK8o
Prisoner pinball. How sweet. And not at all sick and twisted.
And look at these Europeans - they're not even prisoners. What kind of sick society, etc.
Reading up on it, you're right, I'm wrong it does look like it's a lot more dangerous and humiliating than regular rodeos.
Sadly it seems it was set up in the 1960s as a chance for the convicts to have a bit of fun and now it's profit making.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 12th May 2014, 10:33 PM BSTI can name any number of messed up legal judgements in the UK. The difference being is that the householder defending his property from criminals would be put in jail in the UK. That's how screwed up this country has become.
Examples, I assume you're referring to Tony Martin who pursued his burglar outside of his home.
Which is a right in Texas they're welcome to keep.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 12th May 2014, 10:30 PM BSTI can name any number of messed up legal judgements in the UK. The difference being is that the householder defending his property from criminals would be put in jail in the UK. That's how screwed up this country has become.
There is nothing quite as messed up as that. Firstly, there aren't many (if any) householders defending property in jail. Tony Martin made news because he was an exception.
Secondly, even if there were - at least that has a logic to it. You may disagree that they should be convicted, but at least that person picked up a gun and chose to shoot another person. The conviction of those boys in Indiana is entirely without logic.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 12th May 2014, 10:30 PM BSTAs much as I'd like to believe in the fantasy that everyone on Death Row in America is an innocent victim fitted up by the state, that is simply not true.
I don't believe that for a second. Even if they are all guilty, even if there wasn't yet another miscarriage of justice reported last month for a chap who has been on death row for 30 years..it doesn't make it OK.
Notice how every other sophisticated Western society has ditched it? But not the Americans, they special.
Quote: Renegade Carpark @ 12th May 2014, 10:33 PM BSTAnd look at these Europeans - they're not even prisoners. What kind of sick society, etc.
a) The fact they are prisoners makes it worse - their choice to participate is constrained (do the rodeo for prison status and not get raped) as opposed to a totally free choice. They are lower in status to the baying crowds.
b) Those bulls look happy. Hardly any butting going on. When it briefly happens, there are safety stewards pulling the bulls away. Missing from the American rodeo.
c) The Spanish free people are allowed to run away! They are not required to remain in their pinball ring as part of the game.
I agree that's f**king weird, but hardly comparable.