Rape jokes on the whole, are in questionable taste, they tend to be made by laddish and ambitious young comedians, I think, wanting to make a name for themselves. Most of them wouldn't dream of doing a racist joke for fear of ruining their career, so how is it okay to do rape jokes, I ask.

Quote: Marc P @ May 16 2011, 9:39 AM BST

This makes for quite scary reading.

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It is scary, I think rape is a scary subject because many males don't seem to get how bad a crime it is, the statistics for convictions are almost uniquely terrible, in law, and many everyday non legal folk don't know why this is. I am merely attempting to put some of the reasons why the figures are so poor. The human behaviour factor has a massive effect in rape cases, I believe.

Quote: Marc P @ May 16 2011, 9:22 AM BST

'Only 15% of serious sexual offences against people 16 and over are reported to the police and of the rape offences that are reported, fewer than 6% result in an offender being convicted of this offence. '
From the RAPECRISIS ENGLAND& WALES WEBSITE 2010

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Conversley it could be said that 94% of accusations of sexual assault didn't stand up in court. That is with a whole range of expensive specialised services that officers in other departments can only dream of.

Mark I hope you're not suggesting that we need to secure more convictions irrespective of the CPS/polices ability to raise a convincing case. Because that's straight out of 1984.

Quote: Tony Cowards @ May 16 2011, 9:13 AM BST

Lots of comedians, including Stephen Fry with his millions of Twitter followers, supported AV and encouraged other to do the same and look what happened there.

I think the ability of comedians to influence people is often over-exaggerated although I do feel that there is a gradual drip-drip effect of certain subjects and opinions being reinforced into people's brain because of the hundreds of comedians joking about them.

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It's the drip-drip effect that concerns me. Particularly with regards to the Russell Howard, throw away joke which people don't think about. The full on offensive Frankie Boyles don't have as much power because people know the way it's intended. A 'liberal' comedian making light hearted references which imply that rape is about the victim's attributes not the attacker's issues are more damaging, mostly because they go unnoticed and uncomplained about.

Quote: sootyj @ May 16 2011, 9:57 AM BST

Mark I hope you're not suggesting that we need to secure more convictions irrespective of the CPS/polices ability to raise a convincing case. Because that's straight out of 1984.

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Not at all. More cases are not brought forward because of the statistics. What I think there should be is levels of rape, degrees of charges. As in Murder. Statistics show that one in a quarter of women over the age of 16 are sexually assaulted. Who knows what the real figure is. Picture a comedian telling a rape joke to an audience with at least a quarter of the female audience in it having suffered a sexual assault. Imagine if they were all sitting in wheelchairs and he told a disabled joke. I'm not saying he shouldn't just that the joke better be well considered what ever it is. I know I asked the question whether women tell rape jokes - I wonder as well how many male comedians tell male rape jokes - outside of the prison context.

Quote: sootyj @ May 16 2011, 9:57 AM BST

Conversley it could be said that 94% of accusations of sexual assault didn't stand up in court. That is with a whole range of expensive specialised services that officers in other departments can only dream of.

Mark I hope you're not suggesting that we need to secure more convictions irrespective of the CPS/polices ability to raise a convincing case. Because that's straight out of 1984.

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Equally I hope you're not suggesting that the reason those cases are not convicted is because they're all innocent.

Consent is incredibly difficult to prove, and our judicial system is built on proving guilt, not proving innocence.

There's no solution, most rapes aren't possible to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

Quote: JoLaw @ May 16 2011, 9:02 AM BST

That's naive. If you don't think comedians and humour can influence opinion, then why would the advertising industry be worth billions? They often use well known comedians in their adverts, knowing that an endorsement from them will change people's behaviour and attitudes regarding their product.

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Does this disavow people from all moral responsibility?

I watched an episode of EastEnders where Ian Beale got his head shoved down the toilet, does this permit me to do it to the guy who runs my chippy and deny all responsibility?

All media affects people, but it's the individuals responsibility to know when to stop listening.

I mean has anyone used the Jimmy Carr made me do it for being a rapist?

Quote: sootyj @ May 16 2011, 10:12 AM BST

does this permit me to do it to the guy who runs my chippy and deny all responsibility?

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If he tells you he is Elvis it does.

Quote: JoLaw @ May 16 2011, 10:08 AM BST

Equally I hope you're not suggesting that the reason those cases are not convicted is because they're all innocent.

Consent is incredibly difficult to prove, and our judicial system is built on proving guilt, not proving innocence.

There's no solution, most rapes aren't possible to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

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No of course not. But it's a very dangerous knee jerk guilt reaction, to desperately want to rewrite the evidence when it reflects unlikeable results.

Such as black young men are dispraportinately likely to take part in violent crime, a significant number of women lie about rape or change their minds the morning after, strict religious Muslims are statistically more likely to participate in grooming/paedophilic practices.

But when this guilt means innocent people get convicted or innocent victims are ignored. Then we as a society must react, not by condemning but by trying to understand where these problems come from

Quote: Marc P @ May 16 2011, 10:14 AM BST

If he tells you he is Elvis it does.

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There's a guy down the chip says he's Elvis but he's a fryer.

ANd I am definitely not sure about Blue!

Quote: JoLaw @ May 16 2011, 12:18 AM BST

He described something as 'being as useless as Anne Widdecombe's rape alarm'.

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This made me

Quote: JoLaw @ May 16 2011, 10:02 AM BST

It's the drip-drip effect that concerns me. Particularly with regards to the Russell Howard, throw away joke which people don't think about. The full on offensive Frankie Boyles don't have as much power because people know the way it's intended. A 'liberal' comedian making light hearted references which imply that rape is about the victim's attributes not the attacker's issues are more damaging, mostly because they go unnoticed and uncomplained about.

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Also these jokes have always been with us.

Check out the Carry On films, On The Buses, or even Shakespeare.

Also there is the issue of moving the goal posts. A classic statistical wheeze is to redefine a crime in the most loose possible sense, ask if anyone is a victim of it and parade your horrific statistics with pride.

What exactly is the definition of a sexual assault?

Quote: Marc P @ May 16 2011, 9:22 AM BST

On a separate note do many women make jokes about rape?

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Sarah Silverman did in The Aristocrats. And Joan Rivers: "My first sexual experience was rape. No don't give me sympathy, I was lucky he didn't press charges."
And I know a girl who routinely makes jokes to the effect of "if I'm lucky I'll get raped" and fantasizes about rape. She is a bit bonkers though, such as requesting strangulation during intercourse.

Quote: sootyj @ May 16 2011, 10:37 AM BST

What exactly is the definition of a sexual assault?

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It sure is a tricky one to work out right enough.

Quote: Kenneth @ May 16 2011, 10:38 AM BST

She is a bit bonkers though, such as requesting strangulation during intercourse.

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Bitches be crazy. I knew a girl once who liked being punched in the face during the act. Both her brothers were boxers. So much wrongness.

Because comparing someone with a life long deabilitating condition with someone who got a mucky phone call is a little silly.

And giving evidence in secret? Don't like that, that should be for kids, vulnerable adults and people with a genuine fear of retribution.

Even then it's lead to an increase in murky, ill proven judgement.

Habeas corpus is a sword that cuts both ways.