Are we still a democracy or a corptocracy?

Bit of a pompous thread this and I may just be digging up ideas for my little read blog.

But too me it seems our governments have stopped calling the shots. I look at the rather sad figure of Brown; looking like a WHISPA bear in an ill fitting suit, or the rather hapless and out manovered Obama and find myself wandering. Do these guys actually run anything?

Examples.

1 The US health care debate. America has factually got the worst and the most expensive health care in the developed world. But the corporations that support it seem to have utterly won the debate on maintaining this system.

2 Jamie's School Dinners. Yes an old canard this one. But it still shocks me that eating crap that makes huge corps very rich. Is seen as an essential human right.

3 Both Lab and Con are planning huge public sector cuts. Cuts that are going to slice up the schools your kids goto, your hospitals and eventually your retirement. But there is no serious discussion around bonus culture or corp tax.

Oh and if you think there is a huge pile of QUANGOs etc sucking up government spending. Then your partially right, but no where near 10% of the budget. And you just know all the private sector bits (defence spending, giant computer projects et al) will survive.

So do we live in a situation where we have handed over all the real power, to vast corporations who can outspin and advertise our lumbering governments at every turn?

I look at China, Russia and most of Africa. Where governments really are an adjunct to business and I do worry...

Oh and for those who aren't up on immigration. If most of these companies recruited/trained and gave good opportunities with in the UK and overseas. Then immigration would be as much a source of concern as Penny Farthing theft.

Well you've really cheered me up this morning, thanks a lot Teary

Ok what's green, angry and unimpressive?

The not so incredible hulk.

:) thanks for that.

So do you have any solutions to offer? We all know that we are in the shit for the next 10 years, I don't need you to tell me how high the shit pile is! ;)

Some very good points, Jules. What I think is one of the most worrying indicators of the state we've got into is the way world governments handled the recent banking/business crisis. It was effectively sold to us as a necessary step in all our interests, when in truth it was to a large degree about saving the corporate culture and maintaining the status quo.

We've reached a stage now where corporations are so entwined financially and in terms of policy with government that they've made themselves immune to normal capitalist pressures. The corporations are now so powerful (partly because business has no national borders) that they cannot be allowed to fail. And when they are bailed-out, government has no power or political inclination to impose their will upon how they operate.

So, yes, to a degree corporations now dictate to government (and hence the public) rather than the other way around.

I blame this idea of professional politicians. They do a job for a wage and so expect to be told what to do.

I'd like to do away with MPs salaries altogether. And have people who are sponsored by employers/unions/universities or are privately wealthy.

Undue influence? Yes but it would atleast be right out there in the open.

Quote: Sofa_Matt @ September 18 2009, 9:36 AM BST

:) thanks for that.

So do you have any solutions to offer? We all know that we are in the shit for the next 10 years, I don't need you to tell me how high the shit pile is! ;)

Well if one includes climate change, peak oil production and population explosion.

I think we're in the shit for good.

Do you think that Jonny Taxpayer will ever see a profit from his banking shares? If so how long do you think we will have to wait? I've been wondering whether in 20 years or so we will look back at this point as a fortunate time in history in which we managed to get a stake in some of the most profitable businesses in the world.

Or am I just a 'glass is half full' type of guy? >_<

A dear elderly relative used to buy me shares.

A few years ago I found a file of some old ones. Hooray Sootyj is rich thought I!

Then I found out the whole bunch was worth about 50p.

Oh why couldn't you have spent the money more sensibly thought I?

That's our future I fear.

I remember years ago my mum spent some time as a financial advisor (salesman for a bank). She was invited by an elderly lady to value some shafes that she had found amongst her late husband's affairs. This old lady had been living off a pension and it turned out her husbands portfolio was worth over 100k!

She earned a fortune that day in commission Cool

A map of post offices and a brick in a sock, produces the same result and gets you out in the fresh air.

Quote: sootyj @ September 18 2009, 9:58 AM BST

A map of post offices and a brick in a sock, produces the same result and gets you out in the fresh air.

With the transition to a cashless society, I fear the days of the good honest old-fashioned post office/building society robber are coming to a close. It's mirrored the decline of our manufacturing industry. :(

I have the ideal solution to all this. Stop giving a shit.

Aah a PayPal account a shotgun and an internet cafe.

Quote: Bad dog @ September 18 2009, 10:01 AM BST

I have the ideal solution to all this. Stop giving a shit.

Thank God for that Dog. The postage must have been costing you a fortune and the postman was giving me a funny look.

I was referring to the things you are worrying about, in general. Just stop caring, because it won't do any good.

Quote: sootyj @ September 18 2009, 10:02 AM BST

Aah a PayPal account a shotgun and an internet cafe.

I think I remember the Simpsons doing that one :D