Quote: DaButt @ 19th May 2022, 1:18 PM

The latest Gallop poll shows that 36% of Americans want stricter gun control. It's important to note that "stricter gun control" encompasses things like "let's keep crazy people from buying guns" and "we should throw more people in jail for gun crimes". It does not indicate support for banning guns in general. That percentage would likely be in the single digits.

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Do you not think it worrying that ⅔ of your country feel that having "crazy people buy guns" is a price worth paying for gun ownership?

"Yes, deaths in mass shootings (however you define them) are relatively rare."

Yup, only 203 mass shootings incidents in the USA this year so far and the year isn't even half-over yet and usually only two or three people are killed.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

Meanwhile in the UK: https://www.newsweek.com/mass-shooting-plymouth-gun-violence-archive-1619176

Quote: Lazzard @ 19th May 2022, 1:39 PM

Do you not think it worrying that ⅔ of your country feel that having "crazy people buy guns" is a price worth paying for gun ownership?

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I was being a tad flippant with my wording, but it all comes down to the wording of poll's questions. "Do you think that people with mental health issues should be allowed to possess guns?" would seem like a no brainer, but it would prevent more than 25% of Americans from exercising a Constitutional right - possibly forever. Should a woman with a violent, abusive ex be precluded from being able to protect herself, because she was treated for anxiety 10 years earlier?

Sorry DaButt - you're right.
US guns laws are just peachy.
I pray to a non-existent God that we never get it as right as you guys do.
I'll pipe down now 'till the next mass=shooting.

Quote: billwill @ 19th May 2022, 1:42 PM

Yup, only 203 mass shootings incidents in the USA this year so far and the year isn't even half-over yet and usually only two or three people are killed.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

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Again, it all depends of the definition of a mass shooting. That website says it's 4 people being shot, while the FBI says it's 4 people being killed. Use the FBI's definition, and the number drops from 203 to 9.

Now do some investigation of your own: how many of those 203 (or 9) were perpetrated by law-abiding gun owners who were legally allowed to possess their firearms at the time. Bonus points if they are/were NRA members.

Quote: Lazzard @ 19th May 2022, 2:26 PM

US guns laws are just peachy.

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I'm all for stricter gun laws - against the people who commit gun crime. I'll forever be opposed to new legislation that would turn me into a criminal so that politicians can claim to be "doing something" about gun crime.

An honest question for you or anyone else who might feel like responding: If you had a pistol, rifle, or shotgun (or all three) locked in a safe in your closet, would you use it to rob or murder someone? Why is it any different than the butcher knife in your kitchen, or the car in your driveway?

Da Butt I think that there is such polarity in this one that its better to see it as a cultural issue and leave it at that. In fairness if I had been armed most of my adult life I wouldn't relish having my gun taken off me. It would be life changing in a scary way.
But you have to see the other side of it. Conversely most English would reel back in instinct when first being shown a real loaded gun. Obviously some could be shown how to get over it and handle it etc. After all we do have an army and armed police units etc. Plus we have toffs that blast anything that moves and then pass it off as hunting.
But in general guns are not seen as things 'We want in the house'. And you wouldn't sleep without one in yours.

Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ 19th May 2022, 5:00 PM

Da Butt I think that there is such polarity in this one that its better to see it as a cultural issue and leave it at that. In fairness if I had been armed most of my adult life I wouldn't relish having my gun taken off me. It would be life changing in a scary way.

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It's definitely a cultural issue, and I'm not trying to impose my culture on non-Americans - or even non-gun-owners in general. I'm just trying my best to explain the realities as they exist, I look at it like this: Saying "guns kill a lot of people, so guns should be eliminated" is the same as saying "wars kill a lot of people, so militaries should be abolished." The sentiment behind them can't be faulted, but they're so impractical as to be almost impossible.

There were never guns in my house when I was growing up, and I never fired one until I was 22 and in the Army. I didn't buy my first firearm until I was about 50 and my kids were grown and living on their own. I've never felt scared when I wasn't armed (about 99.9999% of the time) and it wouldn't be life-changing if I didn't own any at all. I'm just trying to push back against coordinated political campaigns to disarm our citizens by people who hold them in contempt. It's especially concerning when the people who write and enforce the laws ensure that they are exempt from them. It's all about power, and it's hard to maintain a permanent hold on power if they are armed. Consider it the ultimate check and balance in our system.

Quote: Teddy Paddalack @ 19th May 2022, 5:00 PM

Conversely most English would reel back in instinct when first being shown a real loaded gun. Obviously some could be shown how to get over it and handle it etc. After all we do have an army and armed police units etc.

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Education and training could overcome that fear in almost anyone. I have to assume that it's a relatively new hesitance, as millions of British men took up arms in WWII. I've had many a conversation about guns with British people about guns, and if they don't already own guns, they express a desire to do so. Take a look at the proliferation of "shoot a real machine gun here" venues in Orlando and Las Vegas - Europeans like to shoot guns.

Quote: DaButt @ 19th May 2022, 5:48 PM

I've had many a conversation about guns with British people about guns, and if they don't already own guns, they express a desire to do so.

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We Brits are too polite, we tend to say that when someone points a gun at us. Apparently 3/4 of us want stricter gun laws: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2021/08/20/gun-ownership-three-quarters-britons-want-stricter

Quote: Firkin @ 19th May 2022, 6:15 PM

We Brits are too polite, we tend to say that when someone points a gun at us

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This was at various pubs in the UK. It would be quite a feat to sneak a gun into the UK.

Changing the subject Julian Clary announced that he'd like to play Rebecca Vardey in a TV recontruction. When asked who would play Coleen Rooney he replied Christopher Biggins.

Quote: Chappers @ 19th May 2022, 9:46 PM

Changing the subject Julian Clary announced that he'd like to play Rebecca Vardey in a TV recontruction. When asked who would play Coleen Rooney he replied Christopher Biggins.

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As far as I am concerned they will always be plain old Fishwife and Strumpet.

Incidentally, you are having one of your best weeks.

I reckon you must have discovered sex or something.

Well done, Australia!

"Now do some investigation of your own: how many of those 203 (or 9) were perpetrated by law-abiding gun owners who were legally allowed to possess their firearms at the time. Bonus points if they are/were NRA members."

Wrong question, it should be how many of those 203 (or 9) were perpetrated using guns that were originally purchased by law-abiding gun owners who were legally allowed to possess their firearms at the time.

Quote: billwill @ 22nd May 2022, 1:41 AM

"Now do some investigation of your own: how many of those 203 (or 9) were perpetrated by law-abiding gun owners who were legally allowed to possess their firearms at the time. Bonus points if they are/were NRA members."

Wrong question, it should be how many of those 203 (or 9) were perpetrated using guns that were originally purchased by law-abiding gun owners who were legally allowed to possess their firearms at the time.

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Where are you going with that question?

Quote: DaButt @ 19th May 2022, 2:30 PM

I'm all for stricter gun laws - against the people who commit gun crime. I'll forever be opposed to new legislation that would turn me into a criminal so that politicians can claim to be "doing something" about gun crime.

An honest question for you or anyone else who might feel like responding: If you had a pistol, rifle, or shotgun (or all three) locked in a safe in your closet, would you use it to rob or murder someone? Why is it any different than the butcher knife in your kitchen, or the car in your driveway?

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We all get that, responsible gun owners aren't the problem, but what that question avoids is the legal purchases of guns, especially the ridiculously high powered assault rifles to people who turn out NOT to be responsible. Selling such weapons to 18 year olds as in the case of the recent shooting spree is the big problem here, they are too young to show if they've got criminal intent, mentally stable or not. It often turns out that their first act of crime involves the gun they've just bought.

Taking the line the insane gun industry does, the more gun murders there are, the more guns we need to sell to the public as self protection. To everyone outside of America, and I think many inside now, this is the definition of insanity.

And I think Bill is saying there's a market for 2nd hand firearms where none of the security checks are done on the buyers it may be a black market but still a market. Burglaries, muggings, insecure gun safes that allow your kids to take your gun, and simply losing or misplacing a gun. These have all been proved to contribute to the circulation of guns in undesirables' hands.