I read the news today oh boy! Page 2,220

Quote: Lazzard @ 6th November 2020, 1:03 PM

Actually, we're all arguing about the wrong thing.
Trump is not saying mail-in votes are illegitimate (he wishes!) - he's saying there has been wholesale fraud, because of mail-in votes, amongst other things.
To support which he has yet to produce a shred of evidence
True, he has always been against them - acknowledging that they favour democrats - but he, very early on, sowed the seeds of doubt about their 'safety' - a baseless accusation as any investigation of historic mail-in related fraud claims would soon confirm.

Very true. Good points.
Meghan Markle is allowed to express support for whoever she likes. There are no laws about it. Not sure what the right-wing obsession with her is all about?
I don't think Trump's fraud claims will ever get t the Supreme Court. The case isn't strong enough.

Quote: Chris Hallam @ 6th November 2020, 12:56 PM

Postal votes may have been originally introduced for people who were to sick to go out and vote, but that hasn't been true for some time. You are very out of date with your info if you think this is still the case.

No I'm not, as I stated I think it's wrong they've been casually extended for able bodied use. Yes I do think a vote means more if the voter has made the effort to get to the polling station, probably queue, and hand in that piece of paper into the ballot box themselves. If that means the turn out is low, the parties who get elected need to sort their performances out when they are in power instead of blaming voters.

A low turn out is often a very good indicator of voter dissatisfaction at parties not sticking to their campaign promises and general performances as govts. There are political scientists who think this is a vital marker we would lose if voting became compulsory as in Australia, or so easy to do, as in mass extended mail ins. Votes could lose their political value or confuse them and the pollsters even more, as in 'Did Mrs X from Sevenoaks really mean to vote for Jeremy Corbyn?' Yes, votes are analysed for political science purposes, anonymously but not regionlessly.

I think the over riding point of all of this is that Trump recognised the depth of division in the US and jumped in the middle of it and then pandered to one side,
Like Brexit Trump reflects that there is division and like Brexit given the number of people voting for Trump/Brexit you have to recognise that sizeable numbers of people are discontented with the current state of affairs for a myriad of reasons many of which are legitimate and sincere.
Unless we and the US address these issues then there can be no progress as people feel wronged and misinterpreted and in many cases they are. Not every Brexiteer is an ill informed racist and not every remainer is a commie. The same applies to the US .
As for Trumps claims he lay the groundwork for them over the last year and its back fired as given the assessed external threats to the election from foreign entities and Trumps rhetoric every possible step was taken.
As such his litigious capers will fail as they have little substance, If you asked me if I think that there was shenanigans I would say of course there will have been given the amount of people involved.
But his current argument is akin to asking for the FA cup final to be banned because 20 people were arrested for drunken disorderly/ dodgy tickets etc. It's a nonsense and it so obvious that anyone supporting it looks asinine.
But all that said a lot of people are unhappy with issues that are not being addressed and the more we ignore that the less chance we have of resolving them to the degree that life can get back to a semblance of civility where people can disagree using valid points as opposed to offering up an no specific argument derived from a sense of overall disenfranchisement.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 6th November 2020, 1:08 PM

the help of The Duchess of Sussex

Never heard of her. I don't follow the current Royals, apart from Phil the Greek.

Quote: Chris Hallam @ 6th November 2020, 1:19 PM

Very true. Good points.
Meghan Markle is allowed to express support for whoever she likes.

No she isn't, not on TV during an election, with her current title.

Alfred out of interest what's your stance on Dukes answering police questions in America ?

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 6th November 2020, 1:50 PM

No she isn't, not on TV during an election, with her current title.

As I say, not illegal.

His press conference last night was one of the most pitiful scenes I've ever witnessed

I think the man is mentally ill

Can covid bring on dementia in the elderly?

I genuinely think he is f**king nuts

Pennsylvania have 3500 armed forces ballots to count and it looks like they will be announced as such. Now while it will give us an idea of what the basic 'Grunt' thinks of their commander in chief it has to be looked at as a dilution of their privacy as in this age of electronic hyperbole the military army could be left looking like a Junta or a gang of pot smoking hippies.

Trump genuinely does have some sort of personality disorder, it's true.
Interesting that Biden's instinct is to calm the public down in a tense situation while Trump's is to wind things up and make everything worse.
Thank God, he'll soon be gone. It'll be great for the US to have a decent leader again. Hurrah for Biden!

What chance of the "GREATEST PRESIDENT EVER" turning up at the inauguration in January for the symbolic handover? Diddums........

Its in everyone's interest for the GOP and the Democrats to sing from the same song sheet and that sheet should be the constitution. America would not be the first republic to tear itself apart from within and Trumpism could easily become a Death Cult that sweeps up a range of discontent people with differing reactions from protesting to shooting.

Quote: Lazzard @ 6th November 2020, 10:31 AM

Encouraging wider mail-in voting is just encouraging more people to vote.
Any campaign that relies on people NOT voting is inherently illegitimate.
It's called voter suppression.

Don't you have to vote by law in Australia?

Quote: lofthouse @ 6th November 2020, 6:06 PM

I genuinely think he is f**king nuts

Image

Like it! :)