Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 19th May 2018, 11:12 AM

But the tragic irony seems to be that nerdy little schoolkids are murdering far more innocent people now than hardened criminal gangsters who tend to mainly kill other gangsters.

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I consider it tragic that you actually believe that to be true. You've let media hysteria convince you of something that isn't true. Call it "fake news" or whatever you'd like, but the fact is that you're entirely unaware of the facts.

Fact: about 30 people have been killed in school shootings so far in 2018.
Fact: more than 5000 people have been murdered so far in 2018.
Fact: gang shootings make up 15%-20% of murders. *

* Those are just the ones where people are actually gang members. It doesn't include drug dealers and street criminals who are not affiliated with organized gangs. In large cities like Los Angeles and Chicago, gang members account for about 50% of murders.

On an average day in the United States:

0.07 people are killed in school shootings.
41.2 people are murdered.
30.1 people are murdered by guns of all kinds.
0.7 people are murdered by "assault" rifles.
0.7 people are murdered by shotguns.
4.4 people are murdered by knives.
6.2 people are murdered by bare hands and feet.
110 people die in vehicular accidents.
175.3 people die of drug overdoses.

You're completely off the mark when it comes to guns and Americans. The people wouldn't stand for being disarmed, and it's the people who would have the say in repealing the Second Amendment.

Imagine the bloodshed if government agents kicked down doors, forcibly disarmed legal gun owners and threw them in jail. It would be illegal to use the United States Army to do this, by the way. Most veterans and police officers are strong proponents of the Second Amendment, so I'm not sure they'd follow orders to confiscate guns from law-abiding Americans. Civil war and/or secession would be a real possibility if any president tried it.

There are wide swathes of American wilderness where it's not safe to venture without a gun, because of bears and mountain lions. Tens of millions of Americans are avid hunters and they would not give up their sport in exchange for gun clubs. There are millions of armed criminals on our streets, so disarming law-abiding citizens before cleaning up the streets would enrage the masses. It's not as if our police aren't trying to disarm the bad guys - there's a reason we have more than 2 million people behind bars.

The American people will never be disarmed by politicians who are protected 24/7 by armed guards.

Surely not every American has a gun? So they must disarmed? Need to brush up on your logic skills.

Quote: Paul Wimsett @ 19th May 2018, 3:48 PM

Surely not every American has a gun? So they must disarmed? Need to brush up on your logic skills.

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A citizen can be disarmed physically, and they can be disarmed legally by removing their constitutional right to bear arms. I was a strong proponent of the Second Amendment for many decades before I ever owned a firearm. Millions of Americans feel the same way: they'd like to retain their right to bear arms even if they choose not to do so at present.

Quote: DaButt @ 19th May 2018, 3:16 PM

I consider it tragic that you actually believe that to be true.

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I don't. I'm on an interweb discussion about a perennial hot topic in the nooz. I felt like a nice sweeping statement,

Makes a great sensational headline tho don't it?

My point was these school shootings are making the headlines more and more, they resonate with worried parents much more than more common criminal shootings and I think it's pretty logical they will be bound skew the factual truth in people's minds.

By gangs I don't mean your LA style black or Hispanic gangs I mean actual criminal drug dealing and stolen goods gangs which are responsible for the bulk of murders in most countries.

Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ 19th May 2018, 4:32 PM

By gangs I don't mean your LA style black or Hispanic gangs I mean actual criminal drug dealing and stolen goods gangs which are responsible for the bulk of murders in most countries.

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I'm not sure what you're getting at, as those LA-style gangs are murderous, thieving drug dealers.

Where is your common decency and sympathy for these children that are killed in absolute terror.
Your overriding motives are always, I'm keeping my guns.
Luckily I know you are not a typical american.

Well the NRA gave trump over 20 million dollars for his election campaign

So didn't expect that f**king imbecile to lift a finger to do anything about

Quote: DaButt @ 19th May 2018, 3:16 PM

0.07 people are killed in school shootings.
0.7 people are murdered by shotguns.
4.4 people are murdered by knives.

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Let's not argue about who killed who. This is supposed to be a happy occasion.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 19th May 2018, 6:04 PM

Where is your common decency and sympathy for these children that are killed in absolute terror.
Your overriding motives are always, I'm keeping my guns.
Luckily I know you are not a typical american.

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Couldn't agree more. My 2 sons are well into maturity but I haven't forgotten how they were as babies, toddlers, up to teenagers, and the pain these families are going through must be totally unbearable. Don't know if any of you read about the suicide of the father whose 2 wee boys were mown down in a car accident. His desth is completely understandable.

Quote: Briosaid @ 19th May 2018, 7:12 PM

Couldn't agree more. My 2 sons are well into maturity but I haven't forgotten how they were as babies, toddlers, up to teenagers, and the pain these families are going through must be totally unbearable. Don't know if any of you read about the suicide of the father whose 2 wee boys were mown down in a car accident. His desth is completely understandable.

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That is so sad I didn't know their dad had done that. I watched a news report about the boys being hit and it showed footage of them playing football. I could have cried watching that so I can't imagine the agony he was enduring. It must have been made worse because of how the occupants of the car tried to escape the scene and assaulted people who tried to restrain them because they were high on cocaine. Disgraceful excuses for human beings.

If life had real justice, they should be tried for the father's death, but that's not how the law works.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 19th May 2018, 6:04 PM

Where is your common decency and sympathy for these children that are killed in absolute terror.

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I have as much common decency and sympathy as any other human being. I have a young grandson and I worry about his safety while he's at school.

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 19th May 2018, 6:04 PM

Your overriding motives are always, I'm keeping my guns.

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As I have said countless times, my overriding motive is "I am a law-abiding gun owner and I don't want my rights to be taken away, nor do I want to be made a criminal by legislation which will do nothing to solve gun crime."

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 19th May 2018, 6:04 PM

Luckily I know you are not a typical american.

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Sorry, but I'm about as typical and ordinary as they come. There's a reason that we haven't enacted UK-style gun bans: the majority of Americans feel the same way that I do.

Quote: lofthouse @ 19th May 2018, 6:15 PM

Well the NRA gave trump over 20 million dollars for his election campaign

So didn't expect that f**king imbecile to lift a finger to do anything about

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I think the actual figure was about half that, but it's still a drop in the bucket as far as campaign donations go. Hillary and Trump spent something like $2.65 billion on their campaigns. You should see how much labor unions donate to Democrats.

Quote: Kenneth @ 19th May 2018, 6:29 PM

Let's not argue about who killed who. This is supposed to be a happy occasion.

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Two posts earlier someone questioned my decency, and here you are making a joke about the killings. Talk about poor taste...

Quote: DaButt @ 20th May 2018, 5:13 PM

Two posts earlier someone questioned my decency, and here you are making a joke about the killings. Talk about poor taste...

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Not the killings, but rather, your data on homicide types, my reading of which coincided with the recent Royal Wedding. Hence the Palin line.

Quote: DaButt @ 20th May 2018, 5:13 PM

Sorry, but I'm about as typical and ordinary as they come. There's a reason that we haven't enacted UK-style gun bans: the majority of Americans feel the same way that I do..

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1) Da Butt, how do you know that? Unless you have a referendum on the subject, there's no way of knowing. The fact Trump is President is down to your weird electoral system, not because everybody thought, 'Hooray! If I meet a bear in Costco I can shoot it because of my right to bear arms.' He got fewer votes than Hilary.

2) Do you NEVER question whether you might sometimes be wrong? Most of us realise we're human and not some sort of supreme being who's always right. I loathe Tories because of my poor upbringing, but I realise I'm prejudiced because of that and I know some perfectly decent people have a different view, to which they're entitled. Maybe you're supremely confident of your rectitude, but that isn't valid. Everybody has weak points.
3) And, sorry to say this because it may well horrify you, but it sounds as if your 'right to bear arms' supercedes your concern about your grandson's danger in school.