Quote: DaButt @ 11th June 2017, 4:35 PM

It most certainly is a religious conflict. Read the charter of Hamas, if you can stomach the antisemitism that drips from every page.

Here's a sample: "Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Moslem people. May the cowards never sleep."

Also: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."

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Jesus, Da Butt where to start - you don't seem to know anything about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Hamas is for sure a fanatical Islamist group, but they weren't formed until 1988 and the Israeli/Palestine conflict dates back to 1947 when Palestine, which had been under British 'rule' was partitioned to create a Jewish state in Palestine. The Jews expanded their state by war in 1948 and in 1967 and illegally occupy 80% of Palestinian land. There are almost 5 million Arab refugees.

Hamas incidentally was enabled and funded by the Israeli secret service, as a means of de-stabilising the PLO. It didn't become the government of Palestine till 2006 with 44% of the vote. They represent the Palestinian people to about the same degree Donald Trump represents the American people.

The occupation is illegal under international law (you cannot expand your borders by war) and is enforced by violence, segregation, house demolition, torture, summary executions and human rights violations too numerous to mention. The conflict is territorial and has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

Quote: DaButt @ 11th June 2017, 4:51 PM

We'd fight, but not like the Palestinians do.

We wouldn't kill Mexican civilians in a church. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Jerusalem_synagogue_attack

We wouldn't execute crippled, elderly Mexican tourists because of their religion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Klinghoffer

We wouldn't massacre Mexican civilians at a 12-year-old girl's party. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_Mitzvah_massacre

We wouldn't use suicide bombings against Mexican civilians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshivat_Beit_Yisrael_massacre

We wouldn't blow up a bus filled with Mexican civilians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dizengoff_Street_bus_bombing

We wouldn't murder a sleeping Mexican family in their beds, nor would we decapitate a 3-month-old baby. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itamar_attack

Do you get the picture?

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The Israelis killed 2200 Palestinians on their own land in 51 days in 2014, including 490 children. There are more UN human rights council violations recorded against Israel since 2006 than all the other countries of the world piled together. Israel has broken the Geneva Convention every year since 1967. Take a look at Amnesty or Human Rights Watch or B'T Selem, if you think non-Jewish sources are biased.

Israeli sniper fatally shoots 22-year-old Palestinian who posed no danger at a-Nabi Saleh weekly protest http://www.btselem.org/firearms/20170612_killing_of_sabaa_ubeid_in_nabi_saleh

Israeli police shoot and kill 16-year-old girl who brandished a knife at them, but did not pose a real danger to them http://www.btselem.org/firearms/20170510_killing_of_fatimah_hjeiji

Israeli military fires shells at Palestinians near Gaza perimeter fence, killing a 15-year-old and injuring another man http://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20170504_killing_of_yusef_abu_athrah

Israeli Border Police kill Siham Nimer in unjustified shooting after she brandished scissors at them http://www.btselem.org/firearms/20170404_killing_of_siham_nimer

Unjustified gunfire by Border Police officer during protest in Tuqu': 17-year-old fatally shot with 0.22-inch caliber bullets http://www.btselem.org/firearms/20170307_killing_of_qusai_al_amur

Israeli soldier shoots and kills 19-year-old Palestinian who posed no danger, Kafr 'Aqab http://www.btselem.org/firearms/20170205_killing_of_ahmad_kharubi

Israeli security forces shot and killed youth aged 17 while he was fleeing from the scene http://www.btselem.org/firearms/20170123_killing_of_ahmad_zidani

That's just from this year.

I've only included the murder - in the same time frame they've uprooted 1160 olive trees on private land, poisoned arable land, smashed up a print shop, assaulted children and women, strip searched two families in their own home, demolished several homes, kidnapped and detained children, denied a child medical help, leading to his death. All of this took place on Palestinian land.

Quote: zooo @ 11th June 2017, 6:23 PM

Doesn't America (and probably Britain) blow up foreign hospitals fairly regularly?

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US forces bombed a hospital in Mosul last year. There are too many similar cases to list.

When they're trying to drum up tax-payer's money for military funding, military hardware is always described as state-of-the-art, laser-guided and precision-targeted. When it's deployed it seems to be as accurate as shit, killing civilians right left and centre.

Of course civilian deaths caused by us are always unintentional, unforeseen and regrettable. If they do it it's different. They meant it, the c**ts.

Da Butt that American "Survey" is propaganda by percentages. You do seem 79% off the mark with your understanding of the Palestine issue, but in fairness, I can not see America's incentive for saying it like it is.

Britain's John Oliver has done an excellent show on how facts and reality are no longer important in American politics. I've not seen anyone lampoon lies as eloquently as Mr Oliver (so funny). No wonder it's had over 16 million views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xecEV4dSAXE

Quote: Godot Taxis @ 12th June 2017, 4:42 PM

Jesus, Da Butt where to start - you don't seem to know anything about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

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I know plenty about it. A close friend married a Palestinian guy and lived in a Palestinian village for several years. He was a nice guy, but his hatred for Jews and his belief that Jews were behind all of the world's evils was truly remarkable. I also know a very nice Palestinian Christian family who emigrated in order to get away from the Palestinians' penchant for fighting.

Quote: Godot Taxis @ 12th June 2017, 4:42 PM

I've only included the murder

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Correction: If someone approaches police or soldiers with a knife or scissors, they can not be described as "posing no real danger" nor is it murder. It's legally justified self-defense. There have been hundreds of stabbings and vehicular attacks over the past several months and Americans and British citizens have been murdered by Palestinian "freedom fighters."

Quote: Godot Taxis @ 12th June 2017, 4:56 PM

US forces bombed a hospital in Mosul last year. There are too many similar cases to list.

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Take the MSF hospital which was struck in Afghanistan:

The president issued an apology.
Money for reconstruction was paid.
Victims (or their families) were paid compensation.
A dozen people were punished for failing to properly identify the target.

Now look at the terrorists who break into civilian homes and murder the occupants. They are cheered in the streets and praised for their "heroic" actions.

Chalk and cheese, as you guys like to say.

Quote: Firkin @ 12th June 2017, 5:52 PM

Da Butt that American "Survey" is propaganda by percentages. You do seem 79% off the mark with your understanding of the Palestine issue, but in fairness, I can not see America's incentive for saying it like it is.

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It is a simple fact that large numbers of Muslims hate Jews and are quite happy to see them murdered en masse. It's in their holy writings, their leaders - both spiritual and political - spout antisemitic bile, and they make it clear every single day by their actions. Deny it if you like, ignore the daily reports of violent terror attacks, make excuses if it suits you, ignore the fact that freedom of religion has no meaning in many parts of the world and that there are people and entire governments which would execute you for being gay or an atheist, and women have lesser rights than men.

I love my fellow human beings and don't have an angry bone in my body, but I have eyes, ears and a brain that tell me all I need to know. People can change, so that's what I'll hope for.

Quote: DaButt @ 12th June 2017, 7:15 PM

I know plenty about it. A close friend married a Palestinian guy and lived in a Palestinian village for several years. He was a nice guy, but his hatred for Jews and his belief that Jews were behind all of the world's evils was truly remarkable. I also know a very nice Palestinian Christian family who emigrated in order to get away from the Palestinians' penchant for fighting.

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'The Palestinians' penchant for fighting.' Uh? The Palestinians have lived under military occupation for 70 years. They're occupied by the fourth largest army in the world, a nuclear power. Their water, economy, movement, societal infrastructure and livelihood is controlled by the occupying army.

Since 2009 Israeli security forces have killed 3042 of them, including 703 children, and in return they've killed 46 - forty six - Israelis, yet you describe the Palestinians as having a 'penchant for fighting.' You're starting to sound like a racist, to me, now DaButt.

Quote: DaButt @ 12th June 2017, 7:15 PM

Correction: If someone approaches police or soldiers with a knife or scissors, they can not be described as "posing no real danger" nor is it murder. It's legally justified self-defense.

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Didn't go to law school, then. It was a pair of scissors, not a knife and she was behind a barrier. She didn't actually try to stab anyone. I provided you with a link - If you read it you'd learn that her son had been shot dead six months earlier. His crime? He was the passenger in a car that was driving 'erratically' in a refugee camp. The Israelis thought the occupants of the car were drunk or on drugs - so they shot them dead, on the pretext that they were a security risk - although they were in a refugee camp.

Quote: DaButt @ 12th June 2017, 7:15 PM

There have been hundreds of stabbings and vehicular attacks over the past several months and Americans and British citizens have been murdered by Palestinian "freedom fighters."

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There's been one death - Hannah Bladdon on 14th April in Jerusalem. She was British National and the man who stabbed her had a history of mental health issues. Similar attacks happen everywhere.

In the last eight years Palestinians have killed 2 foreigners (that is non arabs/jews). Israelis have killed six.

No Israelis have been murdered this year so far, but the Israelis have killed 6 Palestinians - 2 adults and 4 children. Last year they killed 34 children in the West bank alone.

Quote: Firkin @ 12th June 2017, 5:52 PM

Britain's John Oliver has done an excellent show on how facts and reality are no longer important in American politics. I've not seen anyone lampoon lies as eloquently as Mr Oliver (so funny). No wonder it's had over 16 million views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xecEV4dSAXE

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Not seen that before. Very smart & very funny. Thanks for the link.

This is hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6XSxv-E2Rk

Quote: Stephen Goodlad @ 13th June 2017, 10:52 AM

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brilliant!

Quote: Lazzard @ 13th June 2017, 11:24 AM

This is hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6XSxv-E2Rk

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Wow...that was weird.

In the words of the police -

Every move you make
Every vow you break
Every smile you fake
Every claim you stake
I'll be rimming you

Quote: Will Cam @ 13th June 2017, 1:31 PM

brilliant!

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Laughed and laughed.........OUT LOUD TOO!!!! On the trumnpster pic.

Horrendous tower block fire (can there be worse?) in West London.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40270582

Maybe 50 people out of 500 got out of it..........................doesn't bear thinking about, especially how rapid it spread.

The authorities need to speak to the man the Beeb News this morning who managed to get out from the 7th floor with his family - he put the fierceness and rapid spread to the plastic (WTF !?) insulation coating that the outside of the building had been treated with recently.

Even so how the hell can a building in this day and age become an inferno so quickly - and yes, we can look forward to some vacuous twat from some government/council department coming out with the usual "Lessons will be learnt from this".

Quote: Hercules Grytpype Thynne @ 14th June 2017, 10:19 AM

Horrendous tower block fire (can there be worse?) in West London.

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Tragic. The videos/photos of fire equipment ineffectually spraying water halfway up the side of the building make me wonder why buildings that tall are even allowed. Hats off to the brave firefighters who undoubtably saved lives, but I fear that the death toll will rise horribly.

My Auntie & cousins used to live there
Used to sway in the wind & was full of cockroaches

You can still see the smoke rising all over West London
Awful tragedy,
I just hope this leads to a review of fire safety in all these types of blocks