What would you have done in this supermarket situation? Page 2

So what happened next?

I returned to my basket and the woman security officer was saying "don't worry, forget about the nasty man". Another woman who works there and knows my mother came over, glared at me, had nothing to say about the aggressors and said to my mother "are you alright love?".

The woman on the till also said "forget about the nasty man, it is you and your Mum against the world isn't it love". I said thank you and added that it wasn't because there are a lot of nice people in the world.

My mother was furious with me and saw me as wholly the guilty party, even when it was explained to her what the whole situation was and, very mildly, that it isn't always wonderful to ignore the agreements that we have made. Had she stayed in the car, she would have been happier.

This comes in a year when my father is leaving the front door open on occasions overnight, both have walked together through a busy area carrying a thousands of pounds in cash in their bags to a bank, they go out and buy me food which I don't need or want when they know I already have food in and they take it into their heads to decide once we agree on a mode of travel to some or other place that they can go by train to Clapham Junction instead when they can't do that with ease. Each has had falls.

They do the very opposite to whatever we agree and think that whatever they do is wholly right. They will only help, whether that help is wanted or not, and will not in any way be helped by people,

My father had to get off a boat on a lake recently and rather than holding the men's hands insisted on doing it himself. He fell and nearly ended up in the water, One of the blokes said "well, I suppose it can be good to be independent" by which he meant "that old man was being bloody minded and if he sought compensation (which he wouldn't) it wouldn't be me the boat owners fault".

My parents also argue constantly. I am single and have no siblings. It is two and one. I feel outnumbered by them and powerless. Meanwhile, the comments from the supermarket people, while well intended, placed me in the category of someone who was overly close to my mother and a bit mad when I have worked at the UN and been to festivals and much else,

But then it seems to me that if you stand up for reasonable behaviour you have to be described as bad or mad because the "world" can't handle being told the truth about its own aggro. And any stereotyping comes from a position where others must feel themselves to be superior. The way strangers see me is not at all who I have ever been.

Don't worry about how strangers see you - they don't know you so how can they form any opinion? The very fact that they're strangers means you probably won't be encountering them again so it doesn't matter. As long as those close to you (who, if they didn't appreciate you wouldn't be close to you), and yourself, are happy with who you are, that's all you need to know.

As for the security officer & the lady on till, they were clearly on your side in the argument so you should be pleased that they were fully aware of what had occurred. They may have had trouble with that couple previously.

And don't let your parents get you down. We're all eccentric and get more so as we get older - it's just a question of degree. Just nod & smile sweetly rather than let them get to you. When they are no longer around, and it's too late to do anything about it, you don't want to look back and wish you had been more tolerant or appreciative of their problems You want to look back and be satisfied that you did all you could to make their final years as pleasurable as you could - despite any obstacles they may put in your way.

Oh, Horseradish, you've no idea how I feel for you. I have no siblings, nor has Mr K, and it's really hard to have nobody else to share the burden of elderly parents. In our case it was mothers as both our fathers died before we linked up. Life throws a lot of shite at us.

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 21st May 2017, 8:37 PM

Don't worry about how strangers see you - they don't know you so how can they form any opinion? The very fact that they're strangers means you probably won't be encountering them again so it doesn't matter. As long as those close to you (who, if they didn't appreciate you wouldn't be close to you), and yourself, are happy with who you are, that's all you need to know.

As for the security officer & the lady on till, they were clearly on your side in the argument so you should be pleased that they were fully aware of what had occurred. They may have had trouble with that couple previously.

And don't let your parents get you down. We're all eccentric and get more so as we get older - it's just a question of degree. Just nod & smile sweetly rather than let them get to you. When they are no longer around, and it's too late to do anything about it, you don't want to look back and wish you had been more tolerant or appreciative of their problems You want to look back and be satisfied that you did all you could to make their final years as pleasurable as you could - despite any obstacles they may put in your way.

Thank you for such a thoughtful and helpful reply. That is so kind of you. We had just come back from a short break in Bournemouth. We hadn't been away for three years and I personally never expected to see the sea again. My Dad has never liked going away. My Mum always had to push him and when I was made redundant in 2010, a mainly disguised anxiety condition turned into a permanent crisis with periodic drama, however much I tried to do my best, and I have tried very hard, and an inability to travel far or go into crowded places, later changing into inability and unwillingness. Previously, I had been highly sociable, work, gigs, football, many friends, walking holidays with them and some travel abroad.

Even friends who weren't married with families started to drift away - two into alcoholism, one died from a brain tumour at 40, one developed a severe neurological condition at 50 and can't leave his house, another had a stroke at 52 and now two others have parents with dementia and physical illness and need to prioritise them. We had been like a family in some cases for 30 odd years and one or two were like my alternative parents but then it all stopped, especially as I wouldn't travel into London to see the ones who could meet. And in the past year my physical health has deteriorated. I feel gloomy about my prospects in the next few months in that way.

Social media has mainly been the answer for the best part of seven years - the only area where I feel as I have anything of a voice. I find much of radio and television increasingly alarming - all the talk about senility and cancer which is often based in money-making and a terroriser/torturer in my opinion and my faith in politics which was considerable has totally disappeared. Music was very key to me and that has just gone so downhill too culturally. It's like much of the world is alien in a way that I could not have possibly anticipated. There is very little sense of identification with "the modern world". In contrast, I always believed in my parents - my Mum's robust self-drive and mild sense of adventure led me to being far more adventurous than my Dad but I accepted my Dad for his humour and a lot more even when the two of them were in conflict.

But living next door, I have seen them as I write on the computer at the front of our houses becoming physically weaker and my Mum overdoing things because she can't do anything else, That has been upsetting and it has only been alleviated by conversation when I don't just observe them but we blindly engage. Now my father can't remember a lot of basic words. He couldn't really show any enthusiasm for anything on the holiday and privately he was verbally aggressive to my Mum for making a noise and keeping the lights on when she took her tablets, the sound of entertainment in an upstairs room, and almost everything else. She then relayed such things to me which I was able to accommodate mildly while we were there. I was also able to note in closer proximity what they were both like generally. She gets flustered when she isn't taking the lead and she talks constantly. These were all pressures.

The one thing that thrilled her was that I seemed to enjoy the break given all the likelihood that I would find situations hard to handle and was amazed that I seemed so well. When we got back the two of them were at loggerheads but both were fine with me and she was seeing it for me as a sort of upturn. I was getting up early, going out, being alright with people in the dining room etc. Perhaps I would even go on holiday now with a friend or friends. But following our return we got up on the following day to get food in and it all went totally pear shaped. It was like everything had completely backfired. My parents are well aware that when I go around a supermarket I do so on my own or else it is more difficult to manage situations that could occur.

Because she reacted so badly - everyone else is a really nice person and mainly right according to my Mum and Dad when patently that isn't the case - I turned on my father, saying that he could have shown more enthusiasm and shouldn't verbally attack my Mum. She is saying that she feels attacked by both of us, that I have his temper when actually I have coped with a hell of a lot with patience under duress and that I have shouted at her which is absolutely untrue.

She doesn't want to talk to me and this time she has really had enough. She is standing back. She's saying she is old - that is new - and he's not so bad (although they are barely talking). He was just frightened of everything from the word go and wanted to impress his father. I don't get those points fully. It feels like an end to me. A peculiar unnerving end. And actually those people in the supermarket represent to me people in 2017. I hate them. I hate almost everyone in 2017. And it seems a very empty place to be.

Otherwise I have absolutely no issues. :)

(To be frank, this isn't wholly about or for me - I hope that the issues it raises may help other people think and be able to prepare for the future in a better way than I was able to do - I had no idea whatsoever what was coming my way and that lack of knowledge has often been terrifying. But thank you to BCG which along with other forums has helped to enable past and present connections to continue to a degree. There is a lot of the past us in the comedy - Dad identifies with George Roper and in my younger days there was more than an element of Rodney about me though less so now)

Quote: keewik @ 21st May 2017, 9:22 PM

Oh, Horseradish, you've no idea how I feel for you. I have no siblings, nor has Mr K, and it's really hard to have nobody else to share the burden of elderly parents. In our case it was mothers as both our fathers died before we linked up. Life throws a lot of shite at us.

Thank you keewik and my best wishes to you.

Only children are a distinct club even though as individuals we are different from each other.

The spoilt tag is wrong. We have all the pluses and all the minuses rather than sharing each with siblings and we have them all with a much closer intensity. That has been my experience.

A big reason why I couldn't regain confidence was that I always felt from the time that they reached 80 that the moment I went off somewhere I would get a call that one had been taken ill and panic on the return journey with elements of guilt. It wasn't as if I could say a brother or sister would be there for them while I was away. They say that they have never stopped me going anywhere which is true in terms of expressed demands but the position is more complex and how can you say they are both wonderful help simply by being loving in an unsupportive world and hindrance when it comes to being free?

I wanted to move far away in 2010 - to the coast - and of course I wanted them to do the same but they didn't want that, I understood it, I accepted it, but I lost the boss in the office when I lost work and got a new boss in the shape of my parents. The circumstances have diminished almost every adult part of my identity which was pretty hard to acquire in the first place emotionally. To be honest, I wish I had been born thick. Then I wouldn't be aware of what was happening.

Maybe you need to talk this through with some sort of professional (therapist/counsellor?) who has experience of this sort of situation. Can your GP help or is there a directory in the library? Or even on-line? Apart from anything else they could perhaps point you towards getting some assistance for your parents.

Quote: Billy Bunter @ 21st May 2017, 10:43 PM

Maybe you need to talk this through with some sort of professional (therapist/counsellor?) who has experience of this sort of situation. Can your GP help or is there a directory in the library? Or even on-line? Apart from anything else they could perhaps point you towards getting some assistance for your parents.

I will see how it goes Billy but find advice from people like you and keewik better than professional advice as I have a downer on professionals. However, what that means is that I do seek advice. I did ask my father if he would consider seeking advice from the GP about his dementia. He said that he wasn't anywhere near as bad as the woman down the road and he does everything he can to help her. I said that she had professional help and that had been arranged for her .

She showed a lot of resistance - people do - and he said that if someone showed resistance he would conclude that he couldn't or wouldn't help. That was essentially the message to me - don't help and don't ask me to get help - while my mother was annoyed that the matter had been raised at all by me. What is conveyed by them - the helpful me is the bad person who doubts their ability to help me or other people, hence help to me will be withdrawn at least for now.

Oh, and according to my father. my Mum and I want him to die which is about as ungrateful as anyone can get. That is interspersed with good guy smiles and even jokes for the neighbours. Both are very highly regarded. My mother has been a very special person, going out of her way to see people as good and approaching strangers as if they were friends. She has little grey hair and doctors in the hospital thought her a superwoman for coming through what she did in the way she did with resilience and good nature. She finds Dad and me more difficult because our conditions are upsetting to her.

I once got rammed continually in the backside by fiendish woman pushing a trolley. We were in checkout queue. I killed her first born child. Worked for Moses, worked for me.

Some people enjoy being rammed continually in the backside. Just saying.

Horseradish, I can see your problem is that you have 2 to deal with at once and I'm not quite sure what the answer is. I remember sitting in the car outside my mother's, feeling utterly pissed off with all the arguments, and thinking 'I'm not going back there, and we'll see how she deals with that!' Of course I calmed down and went on as normal. I hadn't quite grasped at that point that she was suffering from Alzheimers. In due course I spoke to her doctor (she'd never met him as she rarely needed medical help) and he paid a visit. She was very good at covering up, so all he said was 'I can see there's something going on.' He promised to get a health visitor to contact me and to visit my mother. I didn't hear a thing (I think they'd visited once but hadn't told me) and things just got worse and worse. Finally, instead of going to see him, I sent a letter outlining the increasing problems. Result was she was visited by a psycho-geriatrician and after that doors opened to available help - carers coming in, at first twice a week but eventually 3 times a day. My state of mind was such that when I turned up to make sure the carer gained entry on her first visit, and she asked me where I lived, my mind absolutely blanked and I couldn't remember. She must have thought she'd the wrong client!

All I can say about this is that I'm a great believer in putting things down on paper - maybe it would help to write to their GP. It's worth a try, though their resistance to help is a big problem.

Quote: keewik @ 22nd May 2017, 4:02 PM

All I can say about this is that I'm a great believer in putting things down on paper - maybe it would help to write to their GP.

Horseradish. I don't know you well enough to give advice, but I am sorry you're having to deal with all this, it must be very difficult for you. I would agree with Keewik , that when things get shitty, I also use paper. You don't have to send the letter, but writing can sometimes help get things out. I sense you have friends on this forum, so don't bottle it up.

In honour of your excellent youtube links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Oeu7BzdfK8

Horse, it sounds like you have a heck of a lot on your plate to deal with but I'm glad posting on here helps a bit. Getting some help and support in place is the logical solution but of course nothing in the situation is logical, as you can see what might make life easier to bear but your parents don't see the problem so it's an uphill battle.
I can identify with that sense of losing sight of what you used to be and what you used to enjoy, mine not from elderly parents (both mine have passed away) but looking after 2 kids on my own and having the weight of responsibility that rests on your head that comes with the territory. I have to make big efforts to do stuff I enjoy and not feel guilty about it!
Hang in there, curse the world (I know I do...especially the person who invented heatwaves) but don't forget you are not alone. (I stole that last bit from Michael Jackson)

Thank you ever so much Keewik, Shandonbelle, Firkin etc. I appreciate your comments and recognise the difficulties you and other people are going through/have been through too. Things have calmed down a bit today. It helped that I managed to get out of the house on my own for several hours this morning, mainly though not exclusively for medical appointments. Perhaps the main bit was forcing myself into a supermarket where I bought two items. Ironically a woman unloading a very full trolley said to me that she would be a very long time and kindly suggested I went ahead of her.