And of the two 'crimes' you seem to think Armando's is worse...?
Armando Iannucci joins Baby Cow Productions Page 3
Quote: rwayne @ June 17 2012, 2:37 PM BSTIs it ceaselessly mocking an institution though? or the people within it and their actions.
Is he, or anyone else, against the 'institution' as a priciple or the actions and behaviour of individuals?
Yes it's clearly the latter, as with nearly all Satirists. A recent comedian whose name I forget said that to be a real satirist and attack powerful people's dubious behaviour then you really have to be believe in the values of the things or institutions you think they are diminishing. ie. Satirists are naturally conventional and traditional at heart. It might have been Hislop but I can't remember, someone like him, Alan Davies maybe?
It still looks iffy to take a gong though, because a title gives you enormous clout in the world, and it always looks like you're being bought off.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ June 17 2012, 3:07 PM BSTIt might have been Hislop but I can't remember, someone like him, Alan Davies maybe?
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ June 17 2012, 3:07 PM BSTYes it's clearly the latter, as with nearly all Satirists. A recent comedian whose name I forget said that to be a real satirist and attack powerful people's dubious behaviour then you really have to be believe in the values of the things or institutions you think they are diminishing. ie. Satirists are naturally conventional and traditional at heart. It might have been Hislop but I can't remember, someone like him, Alan Davies maybe?
It still looks iffy to take a gong though, because a title gives you enormous clout in the world, and it always looks like you're being bought off.
I see where you're coming from and the way some people will perceive it but I don't really see the problem with it or, to be honest, what 'clout' he will get from it.
If he chooses to take any award in recognition of his work I don't see how that precludes him from commenting on anything he feels to be unjust... either his point will stand up on its merit or not.
I'm more puzzled why anyone would want one, in fact what they are all about anyway.
Quote: zooo @ June 17 2012, 2:57 PM BSTAnd of the two 'crimes' you seem to think Armando's is worse...?
No no, but if you set yourself up as a Juvenalian protector of morality, then be sure your own morals are sound. There is a strong belief by many that real satirists should stay true to their conviction and many have, Moliere famously refused to be ingratiated by the French aristrocracy he lampooned. I think he ended up in jail. Or was that Voltaire, I get my frogs mixed up.
Quote: rwayne @ June 17 2012, 3:15 PM BSTI see where you're coming from and the way some people will perceive it but I don't really see the problem with it or, to be honest, what 'clout' he will get from it.
If he chooses to take any award in recognition of his work I don't see how that precludes him from commenting on anything he feels to be unjust... either his point will stand up on it's merit or not.
It just does, in practice, a hell of a lot of the time. Some will say his OBE is an inducement to shut him up or calm him down a bit. 'Well done Armando, but if you go too far, you won't be getting the knighthood. Please think about it'
To this effect he OBE will officially be in recognition to services to the entertainment/tv industry, it won't be for slagging Lizzie's mates or family off, if he does ever step into that territory. And I don't mean jokey spitting image type fun, but his corruscating satires that clearly mark him out as a dangerous man. Hence the gong. Which he took. They'll be pleased and relieved.
It's possible that may be a reason for it being offered, maybe... but it doesn't strike me that would change the way he views anything one way or another.
I don't really see a satirist's job to be a guardian of morality either, more an offering of an alternative view. It seems to me to be a hope that people will think for themselves rather than being told what to think.
Quote: Matthew Stott @ June 17 2012, 1:13 PM BSTThen you would be wrong.
Iannucci owned him, as you would expect.
And now the establishment own him. Is this what true passionate, sword wielding satirists dream for?
I think it's ludicrous the way people are getting upset over it. I mean if it was say Bill Hicks (if he was still alive) I'd understand people getting angry as Hicks seemed to genuinely hate the established organizations and wanted to put a bullet hole through it all.
But this is Armando, not Bill. He has never set himself out to be some kind of raging iconoclast determined to destroy the current political landscape. More as Aaron said sort of just says "Gosh this is silly, let's poke fun at it".
Bottom line really, as long as it doesn't affect him or his comedy in any way that I am happy for him to have it and for his work to be appreciated.
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ June 17 2012, 4:06 PM BSTAnd now the establishment own him. Is this what true passionate, sword wielding satirists dream for?
Own him? He just won an award. Does that suddenly mean he's going round No.10 to perform fellatio on the PM and will roll out red carpets everywhere the queen goes while licking it clean?
No it simply means he's expected to be grateful for it, set a good example to young people in the goody goody Blue Peter way the establishment wants you to and do the charity events, and more if you want, like many lackies too numerous to mention go way over the top on, if you want an upgrading in a few years time.
Campbell to his credit is a well known critic of the way the awards system is openly exploited by careerists, (is that a song by Gary Barlow on the wireless, isn't he doing well for himself!) but then so was Prescott until he got suckered in. Iannucci's done very well, straight in at OBE level. Well done!
Quote: Alfred J Kipper @ June 17 2012, 3:29 PM BSTTo this effect he OBE will officially be in recognition to services to the entertainment/tv industry, it won't be for slagging Lizzie's mates or family off, if he does ever step into that territory. And I don't mean jokey spitting image type fun, but his corruscating satires that clearly mark him out as a dangerous man.
I wish we did live in a country where the establishment quaked at the thought of a what satirists might say about them, an desperately tried to buy them off with gongs, but the the only people the establishment is scared of are newspaper propiertors.
Brilliant though The Thick Of It was, it's barely known outside the chattering classes.