Quote: George Kaplan @ 18th July 2015, 9:58 PM BST

It generally has a few nice moments, lines & details, and I enjoy spending time with the characters/actors when it's on form. Feels to me like it has some heart, in the way something like Brooklyn 99 has, or Parks and Recreation.

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I honestly don't care whether or not people like the show, it's fair enough. But I think it stinks, I'm so tired of seeing comedy shows about working class people that characterises them in a negative light. The writing is lazy. I never really like Parks and Recreation, I don't really like that kind of humour.

Quote: An incurable romantic @ 18th July 2015, 10:02 PM BST

I'm so tired of seeing comedy shows about working class people that characterises them in a negative light.

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What do you think of Raised By Wolves? (I like it.)

Quote: George Kaplan @ 18th July 2015, 10:40 PM BST

What do you think of Raised By Wolves? (I like it.)

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I didn't watch it, to be honest I'm tired of sitcoms and I have got more into stand up and comedy podcasts/ radio shows lately. If you say it's good then I may take a gander.

I really do think this is one of those gems that fly's under the radar.

Top comedy on t.v at the moment for me.

It's superb, as ever. I enjoyed the first series more than the second so far, but it's still by far the best comedy on UK TV in years.

Quote: An incurable romantic @ 18th July 2015, 10:02 PM BST

I think it stinks, I'm so tired of seeing comedy shows about working class people that characterises them in a negative light.

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I know what you mean: my equivalent would be hatred of comedy about the battle of the sexes. But, having said that, all (nearly all) sit com characters are portrayed in a negative light, that's how the form works. Yes, they can likable - as I think the characters on PJDN are - but they have to be flawed, because that's how the genre works.

You might just as well say, "I'm fed up with seeing films where heists go wrong".

I'm fed up of seeing sitcoms where characters see themselves differently to how other people see them.

Hancock
Steptoe
Only Fools
Keeping Up Appearances
The Office

Need I go on?

Quote: gappy @ 1st August 2015, 2:39 PM BST

I know what you mean: my equivalent would be hatred of comedy about the battle of the sexes. But, having said that, all (nearly all) sit com characters are portrayed in a negative light, that's how the form works. Yes, they can likable - as I think the characters on PJDN are - but they have to be flawed, because that's how the genre works.

You might just as well say, "I'm fed up with seeing films where heists go wrong".

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You kind of missed my point, this show as well as sketches by Little Britain, Catherine Tate, Lee Nelson and anyone else, this list could go on, purely makes fun of a subsection of society that is the product of their environment. I don't necessarily think that comedy should punch up or hold a power to account, it would be nice to see this happen sometime but I just think this show is a good example of lazy comedy because the punchline is- haha look at these stupid people. This differs from sitcoms like the Office because we are laughing at the ridiculous idiosyncrasies of David Brent, he is not a stereotype of a particular class of people. I just think it's lazy is all, but if you are a fan keep on trucking.

I see what you're saying, and I think it's an interesting area. However, I don't think it's fair to say that Grinder is a "product of his environment" any more or less than a middle-class character - who he is made up of personal actions and decisions just as much as David Brent.

Now, if you're saying that The Office is rather more subtly written than PJDN, I'd agree, but ultimately the joke is still "look at the stupid person" in both cases, but I don't personally see much difference between the two.

As for the sketch shows you list, they are all very simple comedies, and the characters are shallow (often little more that catch-phrase hosts), so we can't expect much subtlety in their treatment. I certainly don't see much difference in Catherine Tate's treatment of characters depending on their class, same with Little Britain.

Now, when it comes to the portrayal of class in factual programming, I might have rather more to say...

Quote: Paul Wimsett @ 3rd August 2015, 1:25 PM BST

Hancock
Steptoe
Only Fools
Keeping Up Appearances
The Office

Need I go on?

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No don't go on... He was clearly joking and you missed it.

There's little as patronising as a middle-class bloke attacking a sitcom made by working-class people for being patronising to working-class people.

Quote: Scartledge @ 8th August 2015, 6:28 PM BST

No don't go on... He was clearly joking and you missed it.

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He was being ironic. Jury's out on the joke.

I found it very hard to swallow when one of the drugged up idiots described himself as a "muse": it just seemed so incongruous?

Quote: An incurable romantic @ 3rd August 2015, 4:49 PM

You kind of missed my point, this show as well as sketches by Little Britain, Catherine Tate, Lee Nelson and anyone else, this list could go on, purely makes fun of a subsection of society that is the product of their environment. I don't necessarily think that comedy should punch up or hold a power to account, it would be nice to see this happen sometime but I just think this show is a good example of lazy comedy because the punchline is- haha look at these stupid people. This differs from sitcoms like the Office because we are laughing at the ridiculous idiosyncrasies of David Brent, he is not a stereotype of a particular class of people. I just think it's lazy is all, but if you are a fan keep on trucking.

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It's exactly the same as The Office: lampooning the ridiculousness and pomposity of multiple characters and not just Brent!